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Frantic Brute Suggestion - Rework it to be less random, increase its energy weakness


Alexander

How do you feel about this change?  

63 members have voted

  1. 1. Is it a good change?

    • Do this change
      30
    • Tweak this change
      23
    • Do not do this change
      10
  2. 2. Is it too harsh or not harsh enough?

    • It's too harsh, the item should be better than this
      11
    • It's not harsh enough, the item would still be too good
      23
    • Its fine
      29


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@Alexander, here is the truth about Frantic brute.

Frantic brute is epic tier.

Epic tier physical weapons average damage at max mythical level is in the neighborhood of 300 (nightfall is a good reference İ believe).

Take this 300 as a reference, take the rng spread of Frantic brute; 84-779. You have 216 rng possible values under 300 and 489 above. Meaning that you have more than twice the chances to hit above an average physical weapon than under it. 30% chances to hit bellow and 70% to hit above. That is the issue.

Disregarding the consumptions, would it be 3 uses, and considering the gamble nature of the weapon, this should be spread even around that reference dmg value (300). Making the rng spread 84-516. That's 50% chances to hit harder than average physical weapon and 50% chances for lower. 

İt is a 2 use weapon, with very low consumptions so a 40/60% could be a good value to work with, maybe 45/55%. 

 

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Continuing the discussion from Balance Changes - SuperMechs Community.

(multi-quote, or just quote, is broken and do not support copy paste between pages)

@Sawzall said:

Quote

Weapon

Frantic Brute

Disintegration

Average Dmg

360

359

War Hammer 350
Mighty Cannon 342
Dark Eagle 337
Ejection Blast 336
Distance Shredder 336
Mercy 336
Malfunctioning Blaster 336
Rock Polisher 336
Seraph Blade 327
Back Breaker 327
Rock Recoiler 327
Spartan Carnage 323
Terror Cry 308
Nightfall 305
Reckless Beam 303
Unrepaired Laser Cannon 290

___
___

I'm not against listing it. In fact I think it'll be the best to create a thread somewhere dedicated to weapon's average damage (per use).

Even though frantic have the highest average dmg, it also have the lowest uses -- only two. Therefore the average lifetime dmg is 720. Spartan (and others) hit 3x, so its lifetime dmg is 900 and upward.

So if your mech is very beefy (e.g. 3K health and upwards), (even dual) frantic might end up with a good section while spartan (especially DUAL spartan) will be able to chunk a larger section.

Less beefy mechs, which is the norm, might as well get torn apart by the initial onslaught. A 2K health mech will be decimated because 2 * 720 is 1440. plus two drone hits of 250 (why not, backfiring phys drones that hit like truck is the new norm)

___
If frantic appears on any of the mech in campaign (a.k.a cannon fodder) (i don't think so), I'll immediately go uninstall. Don't make this happen.

Edited by CDR_Xavier
fixed content (see edit history)

It's a FLASH GAME. At least, it once were.

Get over it

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Let me say something but on short because you're not biased and you got the last lines right.Your calculations are a bit off.You can make an average between two parts;in this case,two halves of a chance.

Half means 50-50,so two parts.Frantic has 3 ''halves'',as the chance to hit higher than average is two times the lower hit chance > 66-33 (gorgon said 70-30 so yeah let's approximate).

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On 12/22/2020 at 7:49 AM, Lord Gorgon said:

Disregarding the consumptions, would it be 3 uses, and considering the gamble nature of the weapon, this should be spread even around that reference dmg value (300). Making the rng spread 84-516. That's 50% chances to hit harder than average physical weapon and 50% chances for lower. 

İt is a 2 use weapon, with very low consumptions so a 40/60% could be a good value to work with, maybe 45/55%. 

These can be good solutions. I prefer the first option.
But why would frantic still be a gambling weapon? As someone mentioned earlier (I don't know how to quote from the previous page), as an e-m item, simply give it slightly lower damage than spartan with the same energy and heat cost. Then no one would complain, and frantic users could still use this creative weapon.

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Unpopular Opinion , make it even more punishing to use and even more rewarding to use at the same time : 

Minimum Damage : 25
Maximum Damage  : 879
Zero resistance drain 
89 Energy Consumption/125 heat generation
2 uses 
New Weight : 89

Either you it's double , or notthing , if you use it , accept your fate

Blackhops.png.b8187ad452c155a79d70bf46a3833894.png

[770 Degrees - Aionion Witch]

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19 minutes ago, AionionWindWeaver said:

Either you it's double , or notthing , if you use it , accept your fate

Maybe.  It could be sort of like equipping two large weapons (LRM20 or Gauss Rifle) to a mech in the BattleTech universe at that point.  You sacrifice all the other weapons you could be using and the weight for the weapon(s).  In my opinion, however, it would need to be even heavier, maybe even to 100 kg.

Edited by SawzAll (see edit history)

"Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

http://www.puresimplicity.net/~oneeyedcat/misc/supermechs.html

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On 12/18/2020 at 12:50 PM, Elcent said:

Increasing the bottom damage and top damage by the same gives the same average damage which I believe is still an issue with the frantic. Personally I feel a fair damage would be the following:

  • Buff min damage 84 -> 175 
  • Nerf top damage 779 -> 645
  • Nerf energy cost 10 -> 25

This takes the average damage from 431.5 to 410.  (For reference Spartans average damage is 388)

 

image.pngimage.png

I agree with Elcent

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On 12/31/2020 at 10:11 PM, Nefertary Meriten-Mut said:

Leave it as is and put 1 single use.

Highly agree with the single use.

Either make it a proper luck-based roulette gun that goes all-in or disregard it.One shot for 800-900 if you risk it and that's it;high risk,high reward (although the damage would still be in favour of crits but heck,it'd be so balanced with 1 use).The damage balancing still renders it more powerful than most (L-M) weapons.

Let's keep in mind the fact that a L-M weapon does at most 550 damage for one shot (Magma/Bunker) and this thing deals way-too-contant 500+ for 2 shots at epic.Since when have L-Ms become worthless?

Not even a physical Bunker Shell would have been this broken.

Edited by L4K3
Please balance this thing. (see edit history)
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5 hours ago, trophy435 said:

making it single use and rendering it basically weaker than a falcon?

yeah, way to kill the weapon

Yeah, I agree.  Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but mine is that this would be a step too far.

I think if the weapon is going to be nerfed, we should be more conservative as to how much we nerf it because nerfing is always unpopular.

The person I faced in the arena with dual Frantic Brutes is probably not going to like their weapons nerfed.  But if we nerf them as little as possible, that may make less dual Frantic Brute players less likely to rage quit.

"Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

http://www.puresimplicity.net/~oneeyedcat/misc/supermechs.html

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I think some of you know that the "randomnes" of brute is (seems to be) based on timed intervals, so are all other "random" hits. So if you time it right you get a consistent high hit value. That's the reason so many experienced players get consistent high hits from brute.

Nerf it or get rid of it i say, makes things boring and pointless in arena. or make it legend maybe.

One idea was to make it a "Random" backfire wep, so despite what dmg it makes it can make "Random" self dmg up the same dmg it can to others, double the danger of using it. (at least that would be fun to watch 🙂 )

Making it a one shooter would make a difference to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Hamarius said:

I think some of you know that the "randomnes" of brute is (seems to be) based on timed intervals, so are all other "random" hits. So if you time it right you get a consistent high hit value. That's the reason so many experienced players get consistent high hits from brute.

Nerf it or get rid of it i say, makes things boring and pointless in arena. or make it legend maybe.

One idea was to make it a "Random" backfire wep, so despite what dmg it makes it can make "Random" self dmg up the same dmg it can to others, double the danger of using it. (at least that would be fun to watch 🙂 )

Making it a one shooter would make a difference to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats a ridiculous thing to say. If the so called experienced players would have such a magic wand on rng with frantics, they would populate the top of the ladder. They dont. Precisely due to the unconsistency of the weapon..

 

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