How do I reassign / change my clan leadership?

[ShaunTheSheep]

Hi I'm ShaunTheSheep in SM

I'm the leader of Awakening. Now, was the leader after a mistake I made.

Since there's no option to transfer clan leadership to a specific clan mate in the Leader's Control Panel, I read in the old forum some time back that I'd have to leave the clan and upon hitting the 'Leave Clan' button an option would pop up to choose a specific clan mate as the new leader.

Well, no option of any sort popped up and upon rejoining Awakening found that SM has auto-assigned a rather new clan mate as the new leader!

I've tried to reach the clan mate via clan chat in English and google translated Russian lol for about a little over a week, but no response.

Can anyone help? Is there an option or method that I'm not aware of or missed?

Thanks ShaunTheSheep

[chis]

6 hours ago, ShaunTheSheep said:

"...apologies for not being able to recall who you are, or perhaps your SM game name is a different one.

Yes, my name here in the forum is different than my handle within the game. But I'm nobody, Shaun. So it doesn't matter.

When I first started playing SuperMechs the great challenge in clan membership was finding a clan where there were more than one or two active players. When my mechs got good enough to get into some clans that had mostly active players, I found it was impossible to retain membership within them. The clans set rules that had to be followed, which is fair enough, but even if I busted my a$$ and met every requirement, there was no loyalty to the clan members. 100 wins in arena, 100 titan tickets, log on every day--whatever the rules, I'd do them all. But what all the clans do is they keep one or two spots open. The second someone of a higher rank joins, whoever is at the bottom of the list gets the axe. It doesn't matter if they made all the quotas or if they had to pull a few late nights to do it. The leader wants their clan to be as strong as possible so the players with the weaker mechs get trimmed every time they get a chance. So even if I did twice the quotas, when the clan managed to recruit enough stronger players, I'd see my mech fall to the bottom of the list. It then didn't come as any great surprise when I'd log on the next day and see that I'd been cut from the clan.

What the clan leaders who follow this method (pretty much all of them) don't understand is that they get the same loyalty from the clan members as they give to them. So each time an individual clan member evolves to become eligible for a stronger clan--particularly if it is a clan with a reputation and a recognizable name--they jump ship and move to what they believe are greener pastures. In the short term, the practice of brutally cutting the members who made you gives a bit of a boost, but it doesn't take long before the clan hits a ceiling and cannot catch those bigger clans because any player advancement that would move them toward that means those same players are going to leave to join the competition.

Awakening was different. You had your rules, as you should. You had to cut people if they stopped trying or if they couldn't be on for a prolonged period of time. You'd have been less than a good leader if you didn't. But if a player in that clan met the requirements, they were completely and totally protected. Nobody ever had to worry that on the next log-on they'd find themselves clanless. It takes longer to develop and advance a clan up the charts that way, but I think it makes for a far stronger clan in the long run. Shaun did it the hard way. He did it the right way. Now, completely apathetic game administrators are happy to let that all fall apart when it is a problem with how the game functions that created the situation. If anyone is wondering why a nobody like me might leave his entrenched lurker status on the forum, sign on, and feel a little bit indignant about what is happening here in this thread, I've explained where I'm coming from as best I can.

At any rate, Shaun, because you are a better leader than most I think people will follow you. I doubt anyone is going to change their minds from the administrative point of view, if for no other reason than they've said no already and as humans they will further dig into their position in preference to admitting they are wrong about it. We all do it so we shouldn't expect any different from them. My advice is to have Doc or whoever it is to who you wanted to transfer leadership start a new clan. The people who are worth having will follow if you tell them where to go in advance. The rest will cull themselves so you don't have to worry about feeling guilty as you lose the dead weight.

[rc]

I suggest you ask Alexander to transfer leadership back to you.

[Ad1tya]

Well I changed leadership with someone

The method we followed :

- Old leader kicks everyone
- New leader joins
- Old leader leaves 

Leadership will automatically be transferred 

Well for this to happen, You need to be connected with each other

I'm afraid nothing can be done to transfer leadership back if the new leader is ignoring you

 

[The_Real_Ramsay49]

I suppose you could just make a new clan and inform everyone beforehand

[rc]

8 hours ago, ChooseGeno said:

There is nothing that the devs can do. If you become the clan leader, there's pretty much no way to transfer leadership, and the only thing you can do is retire without changing leadership.

That’s not true. I was once involved in a clan leadership transfer with a developer and 2 other clanmates.

[rc]

Just now, ShaunTheSheep said:

the first thing i did was send Alexander a direct msg n invited another admin into the conversation. no response

Since you haven’t got a response from the admins here, I suggest you contact Alexander in SM Discord for a quicker response. Apparently, the admins, particularly Alexander, prefer SM Discord.

At this moment I’m typing this message to you, Alexander is busy chatting in there as usual. SM Discord is his home away from home, his go-to spot to chat. With that said, it shouldn’t be hard to get a hold of Alexander.

Just now, ShaunTheSheep said:

thanks a bunch RC

No problem. Hopefully, Alexander helps you out.

[Alexander]

55 minutes ago, rc said:

Since you haven’t got a response from the admins here, I suggest you contact Alexander in SM Discord for a quicker response. Apparently, the admins, particularly Alexander, prefer SM Discord.

At this moment I’m typing this message to you, Alexander is busy chatting in there as usual. SM Discord is his home away from home, his go-to spot to chat. With that said, it shouldn’t be hard to get a hold of Alexander.

Not sure why you hammer it in so much, but I always just tell people on discord to email instead.. support@gatogames.net will do the trick.

 

But for this particular issue, while we can change clan leadership (PM or mail me for instructions) we can't in your case, sorry. Figuring out who truly truly truly owns a clan isn't really realistic - we consider the current leader the clan owner - they have to contact us asking for a change if they want it.

[chis]

7 hours ago, Alexander said:

But for this particular issue, while we can change clan leadership (PM or mail me for instructions) we can't in your case, sorry. Figuring out who truly truly truly owns a clan isn't really realistic...

This really caught me quite funny. Look, I understand SuperMechs is a rather shallow game with extraordinarily limited content--and I say this as someone who quite enjoys the game and spends a fair amount of time with it--but I don't know that it should be following the Eve Online model where the game itself isn't the game, rather, it's all the outside and usually underhanded dealings between the players that create the content for which people come.

Who are we kidding here? We know exactly who the true owner of the clan was. It was ShaunTheSheep. He says that his intention was to put someone specific in charge of the clan and any honest, rational assessment of the situation would indicate it is a shortcoming in the game's mechanics that created the problem.  A rational response would be to set it right.

Shaun led his clan for the last year and a half. He built it up to be a clan in which most players in this game would aspire to have membership. Now that it is doing well, he goes to hand off the returns of his effort to someone of his choosing and a shortcoming in the game's mechanics messes that up. In good faith he approaches the administrators of the game and explains a situation that is clear and easily verifiable. The response is "Figuring out who truly truly truly owns a clan isn't really realistic..."

I don't buy it.

I'm certain that, like most other people on planet earth, the game's administrators see themselves as busy people. If the response was "Look, I've got a lot on my plate and this just doesn't rate high enough to warrant my time," while I'd still be bothered by the response it would at least feel honest. It is entirely realistic to know that Shaun owned his clan and his leadership transfer did not happen correctly.

I enjoy the game, but I sure as heck don't expect much out of it. This is a fringe game with a relatively tiny following for a reason.

[The_Real_Ramsay49]

Hey Shaun, its machine, you think he's possibly ignoring you because he now has the position of clan leader in a good clan?  Not to look on the negative but he seems to be online a lot and seems to be clearly ignoring you.

[Androphonia]

There is nothing that the devs can do. If you become the clan leader, there's pretty much no way to transfer leadership, and the only thing you can do is retire without changing leadership.

[ShaunTheSheep]

2 hours ago, The_Real_Ramsay49 said:

Hey Shaun, its machine, you think he's possibly ignoring you because he now has the position of clan leader in a good clan?  Not to look on the negative but he seems to be online a lot and seems to be clearly ignoring you.

hey Machine. yea, you're right there buddy.  i guess gotta finally throw in the towel & move on. kinda sad that one mistake and 1.5 years of work shot with no recourse.

@Devs: guys could look @ the possibility of a leader transfer option in the Leader's Control Panel. just a thought

2 hours ago, Ad1tya said:

Well I changed leadership with someone

The method we followed :

- Old leader kicks everyone
- New leader joins
- Old leader leaves 

Leadership will automatically be transferred 

Well for this to happen, You need to be connected with each other

I'm afraid nothing can be done to transfer leadership back if the new leader is ignoring you

 

this helps! wish i'd come on here earlier before the big boo boo lol 

2 hours ago, ChooseGeno said:

There is nothing that the devs can do. If you become the clan leader, there's pretty much no way to transfer leadership, and the only thing you can do is retire without changing leadership.

thanks for the heads up. didn't know that. i'm not exactly retiring, just figured that the clan mate i wanted to transfer leadership to could bring the clan to new heights

[MasterChief]

yeah i actually really would like this. we do need, however, a mutiny feature, where the clanmates can re-elect a clan leader. my clan leader (ruben) have been afk for almost 35 days. as the second in command (appointed by him) i'm in charge of clan recruiting, but i cannot recruit if i cannot kick/allow player in the clan, right? i really hope the devs consider this.(mutiny means the old clan leader is demoted but still in the clan)

oh, and to make this jucier, you spend clan tokens to mutiny.

[ShaunTheSheep]

8 hours ago, rc said:

That’s not true. I was once involved in a clan leadership transfer with a developer and 2 other clanmates.

that's nice to know rc. sorry i somehow missed ur first msg.

the first thing i did was send Alexander a direct msg n invited another admin into the conversation. no response

in the meantime tried to connect with the 'new leader' via clan chat. n when that hasn't worked so far, invited the rest of the admins including the moderator into the conversation as well. 2 of them admins have read the msg but no response

that's when i decided to ask here in the forums. all admins n moderator r tagged here as well

did i miss out a step or something? would u have any suggestions on how to get hold of an admin n get a response?

thanks a bunch RC

[The_Real_Ramsay49]

What about introducing ranks in clans by promotion by the leader? Higher ranks would allow members to let others join as well as kick others. idk just a thought

[Ad1tya]

44 minutes ago, The_Real_Ramsay49 said:

What about introducing ranks in clans by promotion by the leader? Higher ranks would allow members to let others join as well as kick others. idk just a thought

A system similar to CoC?

~Leader
~Co-leader
~Elder
~Member

[rc]

Just now, Alexander said:

Not sure why you hammer it in so much, but I always just tell people on discord to email instead.. support@gatogames.net will do the trick.

My bad, Alexander, if you took it the wrong way, I was being expressive. That was all.

[The_Real_Ramsay49]

1 hour ago, Ad1tya said:

A system similar to CoC?

~Leader
~Co-leader
~Elder
~Member

I wasn't exactly thinking CoC but something like that

[MasterChief]

1 hour ago, Alexander said:

But for this particular issue, while we can change clan leadership (PM or mail me for instructions)

you can actually do that? 

[Fyrestare]

1 minute ago, MasterChief said:

you can actually do that? 

yeah they can do anything lol you think they would buy the game but not be allowed access to the files and code?

[ShaunTheSheep]

17 hours ago, Alexander said:

Not sure why you hammer it in so much, but I always just tell people on discord to email instead.. support@gatogames.net will do the trick.

 

But for this particular issue, while we can change clan leadership (PM or mail me for instructions) we can't in your case, sorry. Figuring out who truly truly truly owns a clan isn't really realistic - we consider the current leader the clan owner - they have to contact us asking for a change if they want it.

Thanks for your response Alexander

Would you reconsider if I can bring you proof like getting some of my - clan chat active english speaking - clan mates to come here to testify?

Before I attempted to transfer leadership to my chosen clan mate, I had a PM session with him via arena chat, if anything just to make sure he was up for it. Perhaps you could look through the history if it could possibly be done?

I won't mention names here but I did mention their names and included my player ID in my PM to you. Surely something can be done, no?

Anyways I look forward to your response soon, if anything so that I can decide what to do moving forward.

Thanks for your time Alexander

[Grosboss]

can also ?

[MasterChief]

can someone here message alex on discord and tell him i sent him a PM

its related to clan stuff

 

[chis]

Shaun, I do hope they do the right thing on this and either restore your clan leadership to you or to your chosen successor.

There are sayings out there that most people have heard, some of which promote a strong misunderstanding of how laws and the value system of the modern world works. One of them is "Possession is 9/10ths of the law." What the uneducated masses who quote such drivel fail to understand is the roots of that saying go to the concept of adverse possession, or, in layman's terms, squatters rights, and that the actual legal focus is on the work invested, not in momentary possession. If you make an investment into something and work hard to improve it, and have done so for a meaningful length of time, the law in most places would recognize that it is the labor invested more than anything else that determines who is the true owner. If the clown that has had ownership of your clan fall upon him had spent years working on it, then I could see where an argument could be made that ownership is not clear. But that is not the situation. It is you who has spent the time and effort making your clan great. If this were a legal matter, there isn't a court in the modern world who wouldn't give you your clan back. Somebody doesn't get to own your car or house simply because they are in it, or even if they gain possession of the deeds. There are processes that must be followed. Transfer of ownership must be an intentional undertaking and not done under duress. Taking advantage of others or resorting to crime is not recognized as a valid way to establish oneself. But this isn't a legal matter. This is SuperMechs, and the powers-that-be of Supermechs have total jurisdiction on the matter. How they handle this sort of thing tells us what sort of people they are and what sort of game they want SuperMechs to be. 

Having run various sorts of servers in my time--websites and PBXes to name a couple--I'd be proper shocked if there aren't logs that clearly verify what is what in this situation. Servers, by default, tend to log everything. If for some reason such logs are not available, as a former member of Shaun's clan I would be happy to stand up and say "Yes, Shaun was undoubtedly the leader of that clan both in the official title and in how he related to the clan members. He was an excellent leader and I do not believe that clan could be what it is today if it were not for his leadership of it."

[ShaunTheSheep]

10 hours ago, chis said:

Shaun, I do hope they do the right thing on this and either restore your clan leadership to you or to your chosen successor.

Thanks Chis. I do hope to my chosen successor if Alexander changes his mind lol. Because without the option in place for a clean and straightforward transfer, I'll have to jump through hoops coupled with a prayer and take the risk of having leadership auto transferred to another clan mate all over again. It'll be a circus, I know SM is an RNG but this just isn't it lol 

 

10 hours ago, chis said:

as a former member of Shaun's clan I would be happy to stand up and say "Yes, Shaun was undoubtedly the leader of that clan both in the official title and in how he related to the clan members. He was an excellent leader and I do not believe that clan could be what it is today if it were not for his leadership of it."

Wow thanks a bunch for the testimony and glowing assessment! Many have joined and left the clan and my sincere apologies for not being able to recall who you are, or perhaps your SM game name is a different one.

I could include this in my CV and apply as CEO of a certain company ;D lol

[rc]

2 hours ago, chis said:

So even if I did twice the quotas, when the clan managed to recruit enough stronger players, I'd see my mech fall to the bottom of the list. It then didn't come as any great surprise when I'd log on the next day and see that I'd been cut from the clan.

Chris, if you’re without a clan right now and interested in joining a decent clan, let me know. We can discuss the details.