Multiple accounts

[fig]

As the time goes by being on this game , I realise that the multiple accounts IPs get more and more .
The multiple accounts gets multiplied with very quick rythms they grow up like mushrooms , especially the past 2 months !!!
People that quit or  stop play this game occasionally , gives their accounts to  other players .
This leads many many many    players to control 2-3 even 5 accounts ,
many top clans to have 1 more spare clan ( x24 players ) under their control .
In extention this situation have as  result , clans to have ''spies'' on another clans .
Clans to have spare accounts to boost their APs at the end of the season ,and so on ...
And all this situation to lead into a rotten inviropment inside the game .
Of course incomes for Gato are the same, stable  !
But at the same time the game looses more and more its character .
Clans and situations are leaded by 5/10 IPs .

Gradually , in this game we would not know who is who .....we wont be able to seperate the cheaters from the healthy accounts .
And that will be a problem not only to the game entertaining BUT to the Gato team itself ....cheaters and healthy accounts will get mixed even moreee !!! and it will be too difficult for the team to restore the smoothness .

So I suggest to gato and  @Alexander to code the game in such way that only one account to be controlled under one specific IP .
The multiple accounts matter doesnt gives any incomes . 
Any pleasure .
From the other hand makes the game been hostage  under this situation .
Personally I dont see any possitive on this ...the opposite !

What about you ?


 

Edited December 30, 2020 by TALΩS (see edit history)

[Raul]

Since I know multiple players and myself have other players in their family, therefore playing the game under the same IP, I do not think this is a good idea, Besides that, people already have VPN those days, so it wouldn't be really hard to bypass that system if it were implemented.  

[fig]

This opinion represents more '' the lawyer of the devil'' ...by giving directions to people that wants to get sneaky rather than a straight reply ...I really have difficulties to understand your speech towards this post ...
are you against this conclussion ? It happens ? it doesnt happens ? it affects in a bad way the game it affects in a good way the game  ?
I really have difficulties to understand  your point .

Edited December 30, 2020 by TALΩS (see edit history)

[SawzAll]

1 hour ago, TALΩS said:

we wont be able to seperate the cheaters from the healthy accounts .

I disagree.  If this game's server software is doing its job and logs transactions, it can become pretty easy to find cheaters if you either graph their progress visually or sort and filter logs using a shell script.

Do you know how easy it is for me to figure out how many times someone has viewed a jpg file in a directory on my web server account?

Quote

 

cp /var/log/httpd/log.txt /tmp

grep '/this/file/here.jpg' /tmp/log.txt | wc

 

That's it.  Do you know how easy it is to figure out then what IP address asked for it?

Quote

grep '/this/file/here.jpg' /tmp/log.txt | awl '{print $5}' | sort | uniq

Sure, I don't know how the SM server works or how it logs, or even if it logs transactions.  And I don't have access to it (nor would I attempt to gain unauthorized access).  But I'm pretty sure it's not going to be difficult.

So you saying it will be impossible is, with all due respect, hog wash.  You do not know, and neither do I.  So what you meant to say was "I think it will be difficult to determine...."

But really you can't even get that close to asserting this.  You'd need to ask Alexander how easy it was to find the last batch of hackers.  I'm guessing it was easy, but sure, I don't know.

Edited December 30, 2020 by SawzAll
forgot something (see edit history)

[fig]

Ok clear my friend ...I had to let know on public about my worries and I did it .
Sometimes problems /worries etc have to be back on the surface to keep the awareness alive .
I am glad we have similar points of view and we are getting on the same way  . Thank you for your reply .
Yet ....I would really appreciate  a straight reply from you @SawzAll @Rauland of course from more players .
Multiple accounts are welcome ?
Multiple accounts arent welcome ?
Multiple accounts doesnt realy have an impact ?
 

Edited December 30, 2020 by TALΩS (see edit history)

[OKI DOKI]

Well, I will say that what you say it is true in some ways and it does affect the game with the cheaters inflating AP and that it is not as much at lower side just few clans. In the other hands, there are people with multiple accounts playing with family using same IP. That doesn't mean they inflate AP but instead they play with family using same network and same phone or comp etc. 

I am one example, I do have multiple accounts but play with family. I have members are minors so I do not allow them to have e-mails accounts and ensure they use same equipment to have control. 

In my opinion the game should not restrict multiple accounts at all. Some people also play for fun and create different to see results and enjoy a game with multiples accounts like me. I have been solo player from start never in clan just till recently and of course there are millions of clans here and their members asking to let then win for their ranks or clans need and that goes toward all clans including the top. I give free to many top clans asking so AP inflate not just only by having multiple accounts but by players asking and some granting like me during my constant test that sometimes I take 40 losses on the road for my data collection.

No matter what, cheaters and inflating etc always will be there and locking IP will say it is not proper and as example I have 2 accounts that I p2w even my family use the account next to me so I let them play and test and learn. 

Sure I get you but this game it is been like that according my family member player since 2012. Play one account or more it is fine. What you do as clan member or clan direction internally it is clan matter. All clans have different views how to make the clan a top or what more matter as team but inflate I will say it is wrong using accounts in that way.

Some use frantics because nothing else, some are p2w unlucky having parts at FB's some are lucky with FB's and are f2p etc. Just focus in your own play and enjoy. I know that harm the clan I am but we are not focus in AP instead fights titan, tickets and war. 

Do not take me wrong, yes I get you and you have a lot of reason and I agree but sadly not all play in that way so will lose accounts that with honest hard work build like me to be screw in that way it is wrong. Do you know how much work took me to L250 my accounts farming in an insane way 24/7 to make them in less than 10 months at that level and pay for some items not even in use but for future when I can accumulate gold  farming and crafting taking an eternity to make it happen? 

OKI

 

[SawzAll]

3 hours ago, TALΩS said:

Sometimes problems /worries etc have to be back on the surface to keep the awareness alive .

It's all good.  We're here for you.

[fig]

10 hours ago, OKI DOKI said:

Well, I will say that what you say it is true in some ways and it does affect the game with the cheaters inflating AP and that it is not as much at lower side just few clans. In the other hands, there are people with multiple accounts playing with family using same IP. . 

The truth is that I was missing this parametre .
Indeed you cant force a family to not play their accounts for example !
Or even a player with plenty of time to start a new account .
But yes my post was about the players that make it as ''bussiness'' you know .
the past two months this situation have spread soooo muchhh !
Thanks @OKI DOKI for understanding the situation !

Thanks guys for the replies .

But I would like to sudjecst another solution .
How about an account to get banned when is played from players from another countries ?
I am sure this can minimize this crazy thing that we see the past months  accounts change flags / coop played from players from another countries  , for the shake of this ''multi account business'' we see .
Of course in case somebody will travel on another country can still inform the team and avoid to be taken as a coop played account and get banned 

@SawzAll , @OKI DOKI I need your lights .

Edited December 31, 2020 by TALΩS (see edit history)

[SawzAll]

5 hours ago, TALΩS said:

I need your lights .

Given the fact that Netflix and other companies have tried repeatedly to eliminate this, and their success has never been spectacular, I don't think it's something we should ask Gato Games to spend an inordinate amount of time doing.

I say what accounts they can prove are alternate, if it messes with the game, they can choose to delete if they feel like it.  I'm sure they can handle it when it becomes a problem, and they know what they're doing.

For now I think we just ignore it.

Besides, if I only get 3 mechs, and my inventory is limited in this game (unless you're rich and buy more inventory), I don't see a single problem with someone having alternate accounts.

If anything, given the synergy of the mechs in the higher ranks when you are using three mechs of the same kind (heat energy or physical) I can totally see alternate accounts being valid.  If all your heat mechs are draining capacity, they all work together in 3v3, etc.

I can totally see myself having an alternate account in SM, though I don't have one yet.  I would make it a bunch of interesting and different builds, like energy free for example, or dual desolation, etc.

EDIT: and even if SM decides to allow my idea of gifting or trading items, alternate accounts would be even more cool.  If I make an alternate account, for example, I will subscribe BOTH of them to the $5/month token system.  Then if I'm building one account to be energy free, and my other account gets desolations or other cool weapons, i can trade or gift them to my alt energy free account where they will do good, and trade/gift the non-energy-free items over to my main account.

I just got done playing my best rendition of energy free using EFA armor on the 1V1 campaign today and I love the concept.  Don't be surprised if I create an alternate account very soon.  This would mean more money for SM.

EDIT2: If anything, SM should encourage alternate accounts (just one) and allow you to link your main account to your alternate account if you can verify your identity on both.  Like I said, it would be twice the money for SM.

And don't bother with the whole "pay to win" bull krap.  The people who made SM are programmers with bills to pay and potentially families to feed.  I think $5/month is totally valid: we pay more for Netflix.

Edited December 31, 2020 by SawzAll
More info (see edit history)

[firewater789]

If I have to be honest I have three accounts. When it’s 3v3 season Arena gets boring so I play on my alt account. If I’m no longer to play on my alt during 3v3 season I’ll most likely leave the game since it’s getting boring

[Andypandy]

I want to have more acc since having one acc is so boring... i find satisfaction in getting good loot... i create my alts so my lil bro can take them over later. if gato games removes multiple acc it will make me sad.

I have a legacy acc and 3 other acc to be honest

[Nefertary Meriten-Mut]

So much happens on this game ... and maybe it's not just this game, but most of the games that are of this style ... promises that aren´t kept, scandalous imbalances to sell more, cheaters and "favorites" that are protected and untouchable, trolling, bug exploits, AP manipulations  ...

In the end you come to the conclusion that you cannot fight against everything and everyone, there are things that will never change. What you see is what you get. If you try to draw attention to something that is wrong, you become public enemy # 1.
You just start to understand over time that this isn´t a competition game,  is a game of who fits better. It is´t to be taken seriously and of course, unless you are the son of an Arab sheikh and don´t know what nonsense to squander your money, it is better not to put real money for any internet game.

Better to play dumb and not commit to anything.

[fig]

True @Nefertary Meriten-Mut I was just thinking that might become something really better  on SM compare to the rest of teh games because I think SM havent go sooo deep on flip coin playing style...it still have the potential to change and be a top choise .
But I agree with what you said totally .
I am not sure whne the time will come and I will choose a better graphics game that will have the same flip coin character .
Only the addiction of many years playing sm holds me and a few useless hopes
Eitherway all fine  

[CleverName]

I think we're all in agreement on:

1) Alt accounts COULD be useful if they weren't designed for arena manipulation
2) Alt accounts are bad because of arena manipulation

My comments:
- #1 would be nice to have; plenty of people get bored with a "main" account and want to have some fun at lower levels.
- #2 is a problem that's really hard to solve (mainly because of VPNs - no way to track who owns what in a scalable way). Additionally, this is a really, really minor problem in the grand scheme of things (and this really only effects the top ~30 players, so less than 0.0001% of the game)

My view on potential "solutions":
A) ban alts for everyone (somehow - still no real answer as to how this could be done) - hurt vast majority of players who play alts in innocent way; Gato loses revenue to please a few players
B) allow alts for everyone (arena manipulation is issue very top players will have to deal with - as they always have since inception); Gato makes most money this way
C) try to manually ban alts for bad actors (super time intensive). This would be ideal - perhaps give a warning to abusers first (as it's grey area of whether arena manipulation is against any rule); ban if they continue to do it. However for C - I will say it's hard to tell what exactly counts as arena manipulation. If an account is shared with multiple people and stays in a different clan the whole time, how do you know they're "feeding" wins vs. just losing (intentional or otherwise). Also hard to get get sufficient burden of evidence as there's almost none on the player side perspective.

Personally, I think B is the best approach. It's the easiest, cleanest, and best solution for majority of player base. It also brings in more revenue for Gato. C sounds like a headache and A will just hurt most players and Gato. Just my 2 cents.

[Kiira]

I think it's easier to add a report button in the game with a "Alt Account abuse" or somethign like that, if an account gets multiple reports from different people, take a look at his play style and ban if precise

[Nefertary Meriten-Mut]

I think the same TOS (updated version) solves the issue:

 

Here it says "establishing Users for the sole purpose of transferring Game Resources to Your other accounts."

That´s, you can have multiple users or multiple accounts, as long as you don't use them to transfer resources.

 

It doesn´t state anything regarding the use of alt accounts to manipulate Arena.

 

 

[Alex_Iron]

I wish anyone has acces to 1 single account, all this alts are killing the game.

Get an alt account, hunt your enemies, clear the field, boost your main account.

Thia pathetic way to be needs to stop, still there are people who don't believe it's possible, really funny.

Thank you for opening the thread, whoever doesn't like the idea to play 1 and only account is going to rain mad on you

But i support you.

[Lord Gorgon]

This multi account thing made the arena very painfull and almost totally devoid of interest.

It turned out to become who is the most proficient in ponzi schemes building.

It also indicates a very low degree of competitivity in the literal meaning of it. "I multi account because others do and because i can" is a miserable excuze, its all personal choices.

There is no real solutions to this, its technicaly easy to do, management doesnt have any issue with it, most players  look for more AP rather than interesting battles/seasons.

Edited January 1, 2021 by Lord Gorgon (see edit history)

[Nefertary Meriten-Mut]

The administration has no problem with that, because more alt accounts potentially means more money for them.

However, this, along with various other craps like the imbalance in favor of phys, trolling, VIP players who have taken over the game, and cheat, has caused many of us to lose interest on the game. Because I don't think I'm the only one who has lost interest in the competition. At first you get angry, then you try to do something because you still have hope and when you realize that you have lost your energy on it, you throw in the towel and let them do what they want.
 

But there is also a lot of hypocrisy about this, because every day in the Arena I see people who complain about all this, but they continue to buy with doggy eyes. If you buy, is because you endorse and agree with the state of the game.

[Lord Gorgon]

16 minutes ago, Nefertary Meriten-Mut said:

The administration has no problem with that, because more alt accounts potentially means more money for them.

However, this, along with various other craps like the imbalance in favor of phys, trolling, VIP players who have taken over the game, and cheat, has caused many of us to lose interest on the game. Because I don't think I'm the only one who has lost interest in the competition. At first you get angry, then you try to do something because you still have hope and when you realize that you have lost your energy on it, you throw in the towel and let them do what they want.
 

But there is also a lot of hypocrisy about this, because every day in the Arena I see people who complain about all this, but they continue to buy with doggy eyes. If you buy, is because you endorse and agree with the state of the game.

This is not entirely correct Wep. I do purchase items that are potentially interesting for me. 100$ here and there is pocket money for me. This allows me to keep doing what i love the most in the game, building, working in the workshop. 

Its a selfish pleasure, most things i build arent even meant to be top notch, just to tick my checklist. It is by no mean a support to the game neither a desire to perform in arena. I couldnt care less to take part in the current brainless meta and unbalances. I just fancy nice builds that fit my standards.

I can build those abominations of physical mechs, i decide not to, not my thing to build shet mechs.

I can field multiple OP accounts, i decide not to. Id rather let them sleep, not my thing to just ponzi up a main account.

I dont think this makes me an hypocrite, im just a selfish kunt taking what there is to take for me. Occasionaly bursting the balls of the archtects/actors of the here described shamefull events. Also a hobby for me.

All the best for 2021 Nancy.

Edited January 1, 2021 by Lord Gorgon (see edit history)

[Nefertary Meriten-Mut]

Since for the administration what matters is to obtain more money, if the purpose is met, for them the game is fine. So as long as their profits are stable, why would do anything to balance the game? Free energy phys with 4000 HP that have made ball heat & energy builds bother you? And well ... if it bothers you, buy more and build a free energy phys ... that's the way they think!

Your reasons may be very legitimate to you. But they don't ask you why you do it, the important thing is that you do it.

 

Happy New Year for u too!

[Nefertary Meriten-Mut]

...you would be a good political campaign manager. What I´ve seen since Gato took over are good intentions and many promises, but the matter seems to be much discussed and the changes are not seen. Admins (Alexander) promised us a change  before the end of the year (oh sorry, deadline is January 3, we´re in the extension period). It didnt happen yet.

According to what I see on the Arena there is more and more phys build, because the supremacy of phys is notorious, I would say scandalous. So when most buyers leave the credit card building phys, then you change the priority. I don't see much interest in any balance at the moment.

I'm not a weak player, on the contrary, I´ve some of the strongest heat builds in the game. But even with that, every week I find it harder to get to rank 1. 4000 HP free energy builds and trolling have ruined the game. About trolling, I´ve built a crap energy troll and it works better than with balanced energy. To see how bad things are, building troll is more profitable than making a balanced mech.

Edited January 1, 2021 by Nefertary Meriten-Mut (see edit history)

[SawzAll]

4 hours ago, Fluffeh said:

We need to nullify the advantages of using multiple accounts

At my level, I haven't seen any advantages yet.  But sure, I'm not a high ranking player yet.

Given the prevalence of TPM in computer and phone design, I tentatively, cautiously, recommend the PC software and the app read the TPM ID.  That way, even if someone is using a proxy, the machine code that's using it can be read and compared.  That way certain behavior (if there is some alt account trickery going on) can be minimized, if Gato Games wants to do something about it.

I think this is a conversation where, philosophically, Gato Games will have to decide what they want to do.  Alt account detection could become a "cat and mouse" game where proxy use and TPM ID masking could go back and forth.  This could go on forever.  It's up to Gato Games to decide what level they want to take it, what level is productive and what is not.

I would recommend that it's not a "yes or no" situation.  I would say instead that those who are using alt accounts to the benefit of Gato Games should be allowed to continue doing so, even being "validated" as being good players over time.  Then if they are good players and aren't using their alt to tamper with arena stats or whatever they're doing, be given the privilege to move items back and forth.  Because, again, there are multiple valid meta if you look at the top 10.  I personally would have one account with a truly energy-free config, then my current config that will eventually become dual valiant energy, heat hugger, and CleverJumper physical.  My alt account would have an energy free.  I can't think of any current meta right now but my alt would have some of them.

And if they would move towards giving me, someone who doesn't hack or arena tamper, the right to move items in between, I'd subscribe both accounts to the $5/month thing.

I think the alt account thing, whether good or bad, is more based on the person doing it and what they use it for than the concept itself.  I can't say the concept of alt accounts is good or bad, so banning them all I think is bad.  But I can see some people using them for bad, so I think it's the player being evil, not that alt accounts are themselves evil.

[Nefertary Meriten-Mut]

If the problem is the manipulation of Arena, keep in mind that there are entire clans that work for other clans. Certain players have their main account in the main clan and the alt ones in the subsidiary clans.

So the matter of Arena manipulation is the matter of all manipulation on the game. In the end, when you are told that the game has x number of players, what there is is x number of accounts, but the players are not that many.

In the end, they have a lot of free time to dedicate for the game and to attend so many accounts. They are the n.n. (neither study, nor work).

[OKI DOKI]

28 minutes ago, Nefertary Meriten-Mut said:

If the problem is the manipulation of Arena, keep in mind that there are entire clans that work for other clans. Certain players have their main account in the main clan and the alt ones in the subsidiary clans.

So the matter of Arena manipulation is the matter of all manipulation on the game. In the end, when you are told that the game has x number of players, what there is is x number of accounts, but the players are not that many.

In the end, they have a lot of free time to dedicate for the game and to attend so many accounts. They are the n.n. (neither study, nor work).

I get what you are saying but we cannot assume all of that it is a fact.

I am 53 and play with children or family at home. I work 6-7 days a week as Engineer and have 10 years of University and still getting new learnings and no I do not have much time. I do accounts for fun and distraction and family fun. Sure I know what you mean.