MPV or EFA

[pinkpony24]

Hello again I need some help on what torso would be better for my current build. My last build help post wasn't very helpful, I hope you guys give me some feedback with this one. Anyways, I have two lvl1 mythical torsos ready to go, MPV and EFA. I am trying to make one of the builds below, I want to know what torso would be better for my build. I also have enough room on these builds for another weapon, what do you guys think would be an effective weapon to use?

Edited January 17, 2021 by pinkpony24 (see edit history)

[Killer gamer 22322]

Do you have a savior resistance or a maximum protector to save weight?

[pinkpony24]

Well, the build is already 80 kgs underweight, so I don't really need to save weight. and if I put on a maximum protector my res would be lower than shown. that would be smart if I was going to use heat bomb and maybe all 6 weapons though!

[Killer gamer 22322]

Do you have heat bomb or savagery?

[pinkpony24]

yes, i have both.

[OOSNSOO]

1 hour ago, pinkpony24 said:

Hello again I need some help on what torso would be better for my current build. My last build help post wasn't very helpful, I hope you guys give me some feedback with this one. Anyways, I have two lvl1 mythical torsos ready to go, MPV and EFA. I am trying to make one of the builds below, I want to know what torso would be better for my build. I also have enough room on these builds for another weapon, what do you guys think would be an effective weapon to use?

Well, I am not a Pro level player. But by what I have gathered and known by playing, I would like to share my opinion.

1. The mech build is strong in both cases, but its downside is two many blindspots and no weapons to fire after certain time. You see, in both builds (especially using EFA) you have more than 2500 HP. That means in 50% of your battles, you will face second mech after defeating the first one. And you don't have enough weapons, too...just using stomp isnt a good option.

So, you need at least one extra weapon, most likely corrupt light or abomination or savagery or supreme cannon if you use MPV and Burning shower or Desolation if you use EFA.

2. Over excessive resistance might not really help you...(as in the case of MPV, where pys is 165 but HP reduces around 300+)... So better option becomes EFA.

3. Right now, all of your weapons do not use energy at all. So EFA becomes better option.

Final conclusion: you can use both depending on the extra weapon you are going to add.

If you use MPV, use corrupt light or savagery or abomination or supreme cannon.

If you use EFA, use desolation or burning shower. (I won't recommend heat bomb because its one time use).

Another thing is that resistance of above hundred is really not required when you can reach around 90 resistance by using savior resistance. That would allow you to add 2 extra modules plus one weapon or two extra weapons and one extra module.

I hope it helps...(I tried my best).

[pinkpony24]

36 minutes ago, OOSNSOO said:

Well, I am not a Pro level player. But by what I have gathered and known by playing, I would like to share my opinion.

1. The mech build is strong in both cases, but its downside is two many blindspots and no weapons to fire after certain time. You see, in both builds (especially using EFA) you have more than 2500 HP. That means in 50% of your battles, you will face second mech after defeating the first one. And you don't have enough weapons, too...just using stomp isnt a good option.

So, you need at least one extra weapon, most likely corrupt light or abomination or savagery or supreme cannon if you use MPV and Burning shower or Desolation if you use EFA.

2. Over excessive resistance might not really help you...(as in the case of MPV, where pys is 165 but HP reduces around 300+)... So better option becomes EFA.

3. Right now, all of your weapons do not use energy at all. So EFA becomes better option.

Final conclusion: you can use both depending on the extra weapon you are going to add.

If you use MPV, use corrupt light or savagery or abomination or supreme cannon.

If you use EFA, use desolation or burning shower. (I won't recommend heat bomb because its one time use).

Another thing is that resistance of above hundred is really not required when you can reach around 90 resistance by using savior resistance. That would allow you to add 2 extra modules plus one weapon or two extra weapons and one extra module.

I hope it helps...(I tried my best).

thank you! this brings things to my attention that I didn't previously think about. I think the combo with supreme cannon would be the strongest so I think MPV is the torso I am going to end up using. thank again for the recommendations.

[Tirreggregars]

44 minutes ago, OOSNSOO said:

Well, I am not a Pro level player. But by what I have gathered and known by playing, I would like to share my opinion.

1. The mech build is strong in both cases, but its downside is two many blindspots and no weapons to fire after certain time. You see, in both builds (especially using EFA) you have more than 2500 HP. That means in 50% of your battles, you will face second mech after defeating the first one. And you don't have enough weapons, too...just using stomp isnt a good option.

So, you need at least one extra weapon, most likely corrupt light or abomination or savagery or supreme cannon if you use MPV and Burning shower or Desolation if you use EFA.

2. Over excessive resistance might not really help you...(as in the case of MPV, where pys is 165 but HP reduces around 300+)... So better option becomes EFA.

3. Right now, all of your weapons do not use energy at all. So EFA becomes better option.

Final conclusion: you can use both depending on the extra weapon you are going to add.

If you use MPV, use corrupt light or savagery or abomination or supreme cannon.

If you use EFA, use desolation or burning shower. (I won't recommend heat bomb because its one time use).

Another thing is that resistance of above hundred is really not required when you can reach around 90 resistance by using savior resistance. That would allow you to add 2 extra modules plus one weapon or two extra weapons and one extra module.

I hope it helps...(I tried my best).

Overall, I do not recommend using savagery or corrupt light, since they deal far too little damage. Your best option remains a sorrow or a Shadow Wolf, otherwise a basalt polisher also works. Desolation is last resort and overall not so good due to the Space Invader. Supreme canon is good (shadow is better) however then you are forced to play MPV. For the second build it might be better to replace one engine with a booster. If you have more magmas equip those.

[Manolis109]

I read MVP or FIFA lol

[SawzAll]

I would say EFA is better for what you seem to want to do.  But I am not rank 1, and so I would say we'd have to ask a rank 1 person to try both configurations out and see which they think is best.  And/or test this in WU.

Why not set up WU so that you pilot both mechs when you fight against the computer, and then build both of them and fight them against each other?  That's what I would do.

I'm partial to EFA because I own one, and I prefer more hit points in this situation.  But I recognize MPV has more resistance.

In my opinion, the extra weight is for another basalt dissolver....

Edited January 17, 2021 by SawzAll (see edit history)

[epicspeedster]

you have 80 spare weight, EFA is super light so use MPV, but you can also put on another weapon

[Fordekash]

For your build go EFA.

[pinkpony24]

8 hours ago, SawzAll said:

I would say EFA is better for what you seem to want to do.  But I am not rank 1, and so I would say we'd have to ask a rank 1 person to try both configurations out and see which they think is best.  And/or test this in WU.

Why not set up WU so that you pilot both mechs when you fight against the computer, and then build both of them and fight them against each other?  That's what I would do.

I'm partial to EFA because I own one, and I prefer more hit points in this situation.  But I recognize MPV has more resistance.

In my opinion, the extra weight is for another basalt dissolver....

I was also thinking of triple basalt dissolver, then stomp would be a legit weapon also, I have the L-M heat hook so that could be a useful weapon with opponent having low res.

[RaymondL1747]

Energy-free armor is for energy-free weapons only while molten platium vest is for if you wanna make a physical counter mech.

[OOSNSOO]

10 hours ago, SawzAll said:

I would say EFA is better for what you seem to want to do.  But I am not rank 1, and so I would say we'd have to ask a rank 1 person to try both configurations out and see which they think is best.  And/or test this in WU.

Why not set up WU so that you pilot both mechs when you fight against the computer, and then build both of them and fight them against each other?  That's what I would do.

I'm partial to EFA because I own one, and I prefer more hit points in this situation.  But I recognize MPV has more resistance.

In my opinion, the extra weight is for another basalt dissolver....

Actually, I am with EFA too...As @Tirreggregars said, a sorrow is one solid combination of a weapon while using EFA... And if you change to savior resistance, supreme cannon or another sorrow can do the trick.

But I DO DISAGREE with another bassalt dissolver... You won't even get the real opportunity to use those, and even if you do, those are one time weapons only... Mind it... Technically then you could fire three turns without much damage.... But by that time, a physical mech using only one Armor dissolver can kill you....I strictly disagree with the idea of 4 one-time weapon use.

Using another bassalt dissolver will just not cope with your intention of being a heat mech..(as the heat isn't going to rise that much and with someone having 400+ heat and 150+ cooling, and being a physical mech, you would definitely lose)...

You should atleast have two weapons whose ranges coincide so atleast you don't have any spare turn...

Plus, if I were you, and I if my second mech was heat one too, I would have preferred to use one bassalt dissolver against one mech...

I would like to say one more thing, if you use energy free weapons, you will have another great advantage... You heat goes above 500, you HP goes 300+, and your cooling, even using an heat engine is more.

Now it's your mech @pinkpony24, do what you want to do and try out every single combination. You will find out yourself.

Edited January 18, 2021 by OOSNSOO (see edit history)

[SawzAll]

8 hours ago, OOSNSOO said:

And if you change to savior resistance, supreme cannon or another sorrow can do the trick.

I do not agree at all.  Savior resistance is only useful in the campaign and only with a monkey torso.  In the arena, you'd be better off putting a max'd iron plating on than a savior resistance.  Not only did this work out in WU when I tested it, it is what players higher in rank than I am recommend, and it has played out this way in the arena.  Besides, the EFA already has resistance.

Sure, maybe not another basalt dissolver.  I don't think the guy has another sorrow, though.

If you're going to go EFA, do not put a single energy module or energy-using item on the mech.  That's why EFA is useful.  I recommend against a supreme cannon because those draw energy.

It's to the point where if I see someone in the arena using EFA but with energy drawing weapons, I select my energy mech to fight against them, and I usually win (at rank 10).

So my advice is only use EFA if you're going to go "all the way" with the energy-free configuration.

Basalt Dissolver is better because it doesn't draw energy.  A heat bomb would make more sense than another supreme cannon: they also work without energy.

Edited January 18, 2021 by SawzAll (see edit history)

[SC2A]

but he can use desolation instead @SawzAll

or she

[SawzAll]

1 minute ago, nightmarefreddy said:

but he can use desolation instead @SawzAll

or she

Sure, that's an energy-free weapon.  I don't know if they will find it useful if they're already in a hugger config, but maybe it will work out for them.

[OOSNSOO]

Can't agree but can't disagree.

It depends all on what torso he is using.

Using MPV: use some heat weapon which draws energy...(you already know the examples).

Using EFA: use some heat weapon which doesn't use energy ...

That's all

But EFA is better, given the weapons you already have and the stats.

[Tirreggregars]

On 1/18/2021 at 2:24 PM, SawzAll said:

I do not agree at all.  Savior resistance is only useful in the campaign and only with a monkey torso.  In the arena, you'd be better off putting a max'd iron plating on than a savior resistance.  Not only did this work out in WU when I tested it, it is what players higher in rank than I am recommend, and it has played out this way in the arena.  Besides, the EFA already has resistance.

Sure, maybe not another basalt dissolver.  I don't think the guy has another sorrow, though.

If you're going to go EFA, do not put a single energy module or energy-using item on the mech.  That's why EFA is useful.  I recommend against a supreme cannon because those draw energy.

It's to the point where if I see someone in the arena using EFA but with energy drawing weapons, I select my energy mech to fight against them, and I usually win (at rank 10).

So my advice is only use EFA if you're going to go "all the way" with the energy-free configuration.

Basalt Dissolver is better because it doesn't draw energy.  A heat bomb would make more sense than another supreme cannon: they also work without energy.

While I might agree for a max Plat Plate, at your rank saviour res is better than iron, since dissolvers are rare, and doing the maths it equates to more hp than an iron plate.

 

Back tot he original post, if you wish to run any energy dependent weapons at all, I recommend MPV, since with EFA you have to equip one energy module at least if you want to run those, without any energy dependent weapons efa is better since it allows for better modules and more weapons. Overall, I recommend playing a sorrow, and otherwise I recommend using Windigo since it is now very very strong and easy to get. Right now you can't really go wrong with any of those torsos so it's up to you.

[SawzAll]

1 minute ago, Tirreggregars said:

While I might agree for a max Plat Plate, at your rank saviour res is better than iron, since dissolvers are rare, and doing the maths it equates to more hp than an iron plate.

That's not how it plays out in the arena at my rank, as well as not how it plays out in WU.  But I'm not here to say that you're "wrong" so much as my experience and testing say otherwise.

1 minute ago, Tirreggregars said:

Back tot he original post, if you wish to run any energy dependent weapons at all, I recommend MPV

Absolutely agree here.  I make it a point to select my energy mech when someone has an EFA build that's not completely energy free, because usually I beat them.  EFA is one of those things that, in my opinion, is "go all the way or go home."

[Tirreggregars]

Just now, SawzAll said:

That's not how it plays out in the arena at my rank, as well as not how it plays out in WU.  But I'm not here to say that you're "wrong" so much as my experience and testing say otherwise.

Absolutely agree here.  I make it a point to select my energy mech when someone has an EFA build that's not completely energy free, because usually I beat them.  EFA is one of those things that, in my opinion, is "go all the way or go home."

I am at a similar rank (7) and saviour resistance has worked perfectly for me. I believe it is mathematically impossible to disprove my claim (taking into account the fact that little to no dissolvers are used at my rank)

2 minutes ago, SawzAll said:

That's not how it plays out in the arena at my rank, as well as not how it plays out in WU.  But I'm not here to say that you're "wrong" so much as my experience and testing say otherwise.

Absolutely agree here.  I make it a point to select my energy mech when someone has an EFA build that's not completely energy free, because usually I beat them.  EFA is one of those things that, in my opinion, is "go all the way or go home."

EFA is generally weak to energy, since 240 valiant drain is superior to the 120 or so res you get with an efa.

[SawzAll]

8 minutes ago, Tirreggregars said:

 I believe it is mathematically impossible to disprove my claim (taking into account the fact that little to no dissolvers are used at my rank)

Nah, rank 10 and rank 7 aren't similar, at least in my opinion.  (I say that only to say you're at a significantly higher rank than me, but whatever.)

I would say it's possible to mathematically test it.  You'd need to record your resistance values when either any of your mechs is destroyed and/or you win.  That tells you how much resistance damage, on average, those at your rank do to you.

Then from there more calculations are done on averages.

It would just probably be too cumbersome and involved for most people to want to do it.

Maybe that will be my next research project.

I totally recommend savior resistance (or specialized resistance modules)  in the campaigns though, to be fair.  That's because I did test that part of the theory, and found that resistance is more valuable in the campaigns because it resets per enemy.

Edited January 19, 2021 by SawzAll (see edit history)

[OOSNSOO]

Whatever the war of words Is going on, and given my arena rank is far less than you two (12, to be exact), I would say only one thing: In this case, savior resistance is definitely better, especially with EFA as the rounded resistance becomes 89. Whereas using independent gives you 130. But What you can add is another max plate.. So, Using savior resistance with another maxed plate giving you 371 HP is definitely worth more than excessively increasing your resistance.

13 hours ago, Tirreggregars said:

While I might agree for a max Plat Plate, at your rank saviour res is better than iron, since dissolvers are rare, and doing the maths it equates to more hp than an iron plate.

 

Back tot he original post, if you wish to run any energy dependent weapons at all, I recommend MPV, since with EFA you have to equip one energy module at least if you want to run those, without any energy dependent weapons efa is better since it allows for better modules and more weapons. Overall, I recommend playing a sorrow, and otherwise I recommend using Windigo since it is now very very strong and easy to get. Right now you can't really go wrong with any of those torsos so it's up to you.

 

13 hours ago, SawzAll said:

That's not how it plays out in the arena at my rank, as well as not how it plays out in WU.  But I'm not here to say that you're "wrong" so much as my experience and testing say otherwise.

Absolutely agree here.  I make it a point to select my energy mech when someone has an EFA build that's not completely energy free, because usually I beat them.  EFA is one of those things that, in my opinion, is "go all the way or go home."

 

13 hours ago, Tirreggregars said:

I am at a similar rank (7) and saviour resistance has worked perfectly for me. I believe it is mathematically impossible to disprove my claim (taking into account the fact that little to no dissolvers are used at my rank)

EFA is generally weak to energy, since 240 valiant drain is superior to the 120 or so res you get with an efa.

 

12 hours ago, SawzAll said:

Nah, rank 10 and rank 7 aren't similar, at least in my opinion.  (I say that only to say you're at a significantly higher rank than me, but whatever.)

I would say it's possible to mathematically test it.  You'd need to record your resistance values when either any of your mechs is destroyed and/or you win.  That tells you how much resistance damage, on average, those at your rank do to you.

Then from there more calculations are done on averages.

It would just probably be too cumbersome and involved for most people to want to do it.

Maybe that will be my next research project.

I totally recommend savior resistance (or specialized resistance modules)  in the campaigns though, to be fair.  That's because I did test that part of the theory, and found that resistance is more valuable in the campaigns because it resets per enemy.

 

[SawzAll]

9 hours ago, OOSNSOO said:

savior resistance is definitely better, especially with EFA as the rounded resistance becomes 89

That's a max protector.  Savior resist only gives you 16/16/16.

[OOSNSOO]

15 hours ago, SawzAll said:

That's a max protector.  Savior resist only gives you 16/16/16.

Thanks for the correction.