Sacrifice Cannon

[Morrowseer]

Ever since Frantic was balanced, there's really no point in using Sacrifice Cannon. Frantic has 2 uses, and deals 205 - 515 damage (no arena bonuses), and has 2 uses. Sacrifice Cannon has one use, deals 214 - 520 damage, and on top of that has 123 backfire. I understand that there is no need to make physical better than it already is, but I feel that it is now redundant. My suggestion is to maybe make it 2 uses and give it slightly more damage, or make it 3 uses and keep the damage the same.

 

 

please don't flame me for this

 

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Morrowseer
forgot poll (see edit history)

[SonnY-ku]

Buff it 

but the developers are not going to do anything like most requests in Balance Changes so it doesn't matter....

 

[Jahy Sama]

You're forgetting the weight of sacrifice cannons and their burst dmg?

[Shoultz262]

Sacrifice cannon is already very good, if not underrated. It is the physical version of a bunker shell/magma blast. It is highly used in some energy free physical builds and also great as a extra weapon because of its low weight, high damage but only one use. It doesn't need a buff at all.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Shoultz262 (see edit history)

[W.H.I.T.E.O.U.T]

There's little to no other weapon that can do Sacrifice Cannon's job better than it can.

It's basically a lightweight push weapon that's made to deal substantial damage to the target without being as heavy as a Terror Cry or as pointless to use as an Unrepaired Laser Cannon.

Besides, it's meant to be used as a support weapon rather than a main weapon since it's combo'd with a main weapon (i.e Mercy, Spartan Carnage, Frantic Brute, Mighty Cannon) in order to do more overall damage or to force someone away without wasting chances to deal resist break or more damage than if you were to use Terror Cry, which doesn't do resist break and has a lower damage average for its 3 shots.

But I suppose that it's up to the user to determine how effective Sacrifice Cannon is, whether it be a META item or a cheap alternative.

[AftoKrator]

Since it has backfire and all that, i'd say make it has less energy and heat cost. In fact, i'd probably be much better to only have heat cost since it's only 1 use. And maybe increase its push to 2 range, otherwise it'll just be another really bad version of malfunctioning blaster. 

[Tirreggregars]

Leave it, it has a purpose, good damage and low weight, and its very different to frantic, its used to push, and it deals great damage and res drain.

[SC2A]

It's already good

[Dark conon mech]

15 hours ago, Morrowseer said:

Ever since Frantic was balanced, there's really no point in using Sacrifice Cannon. Frantic has 2 uses, and deals 205 - 515 damage (no arena bonuses), and has 2 uses. Sacrifice Cannon has one use, deals 214 - 520 damage, and on top of that has 123 backfire. I understand that there is no need to make physical better than it already is, but I feel that it is now redundant. My suggestion is to maybe make it 2 uses and give it slightly more damage, or make it 3 uses and keep the damage the same.

 

 

please don't flame me for this

 

 

Wait frantic no longer has 3 uses :((

2 hours ago, Tirreggregars said:

Leave it, it has a purpose, good damage and low weight, and its very different to frantic, its used to push, and it deals great damage and res drain.

Yes :))

2 hours ago, AftoKrator said:

Since it has backfire and all that, i'd say make it has less energy and heat cost. In fact, i'd probably be much better to only have heat cost since it's only 1 use. And maybe increase its push to 2 range, otherwise it'll just be another really bad version of malfunctioning blaster. 

Maybe for heat one heat only and for sacrifice cannon uses nothing :))

[Dark conon mech]

16 minutes ago, STARWULPH said:

Umm, it never did, it's always been 2 shots.

Mythic frantic had 3 what you mean it always had 2 how long have you played for?

[SawzAll]

17 hours ago, Morrowseer said:

Ever since Frantic was balanced, there's really no point in using Sacrifice Cannon.

With all due respect, no. What arena rank are you? I have a feeling you are new.

[SC2A]

3 hours ago, SawzAll said:

With all due respect, no. What arena rank are you? I have a feeling you are new.

You know what's newbie rank

25-20

[Shoultz262]

4 hours ago, Dark conon mech said:

Mythic frantic had 3 what you mean it always had 2 how long have you played for?

Frantics always have 2 uses.

9 hours ago, AftoKrator said:

Since it has backfire and all that, i'd say make it has less energy and heat cost. In fact, i'd probably be much better to only have heat cost since it's only 1 use. And maybe increase its push to 2 range, otherwise it'll just be another really bad version of malfunctioning blaster. 

The costs are already pretty low. And we don't need it to be energy free, since we don't want energy free physicals to be any better than they already are. And making it push 2 will be useless, and it doesn't need it anyway. Malfunctioning blaster is used in a completely different way, more of a energy free spartan than anything. Where this weapon is more of a extra weapon because of its low weight and high damage.

[SC2A]

3 minutes ago, Shoultz262 said:

Frantics always have 2 uses.

And the game will be crazy if It have 3 uses lol

[W.H.I.T.E.O.U.T]

18 hours ago, Soviet Union mech said:

And the game will be crazy if It have 3 uses lol

The F2P Spartan Carnage is best left with 2 uses if it has a 618 max damage cap and a slightly higher damage average than Spartan Carnage itself. 3 shots would be a nightmare and even the mere thought of that is horrifying enough.

So... Yeah... The E-M Spartan should remain as is.

[OKI DOKI]

I do not know you, but I get kill often with them. Just saying 

[W.H.I.T.E.O.U.T]

Just now, OKI DOKI said:

I do not know you, but I get kill often with them. Just saying 

I get hammered by divine Frantic Brutes as a daily routine, so I feel your pain.

But at the same time, I feel a very similar pain when someone has a Damaged Armor Annihilator and Spartan Carnage on the same physical build in rank 8, so I can't really say that Brutes are the only sources of pain that I go through when doing arena battles in rank 8.

[OKI DOKI]

1 hour ago, W.H.I.T.E.O.U.T said:

I get hammered by divine Frantic Brutes as a daily routine, so I feel your pain.

But at the same time, I feel a very similar pain when someone has a Damaged Armor Annihilator and Spartan Carnage on the same physical build in rank 8, so I can't really say that Brutes are the only sources of pain that I go through when doing arena battles in rank 8.

What happen at your rank in particular in 3v3 is that many top players de-rank to get easy wins as 2v2 because 3v3 takes too long. In my case I drop to play at normal rank with mechs test at those levels proper for those levels. For example, I was playing test parts mechs at R10 for few days and today I moved to top rank. Now, I was playing and many matches against my mech were out of logic. Me R10 vs R6 full R3-R2 mechs power. I will understand an R10 full L50 with weak modules and be at 2k-2,3k since was normal to be matched when I was at that rank because the game always like to match me with higher hp player but many clans players drop to your rank and you can't compete against them.

I know well since I test in R5-R1 but also R10-R6 with low mechs. I was trying to move up but a beehive of top players playing in full power at R6 of below it was impossible to test properly and I had to switch few times to stronger mechs to hunt them down then later move up rank to top properly.  

[SawzAll]

2 hours ago, W.H.I.T.E.O.U.T said:

The F2P Spartan Carnage is best left with 2 uses if it has a 618 max damage cap and a slightly higher damage average than Spartan Carnage itself. 3 shots would be a nightmare and even the mere thought of that is horrifying enough.

So... Yeah... The E-M Spartan should remain as is.

You're referring to Frantic Brute?

Honestly, I'll repeat what I said on another thread: I think Frantic Brute should be made identical to Spartan Carnage except 2 shots.  It needs a damage nerf because it's still possible to do in 2 shots what it takes Spartan to do in 3.

[Spam]

2 hours ago, SawzAll said:

You're referring to Frantic Brute?

Honestly, I'll repeat what I said on another thread: I think Frantic Brute should be made identical to Spartan Carnage except 2 shots.  It needs a damage nerf because it's still possible to do in 2 shots what it takes Spartan to do in 3.

True, make it a better version of rapid destruction but worse than brute.

[Morrowseer]

On 4/28/2021 at 6:25 AM, SawzAll said:

With all due respect, no. What arena rank are you? I have a feeling you are new.

Rank 8-9

[Shoultz262]

12 hours ago, SawzAll said:

You're referring to Frantic Brute?

Honestly, I'll repeat what I said on another thread: I think Frantic Brute should be made identical to Spartan Carnage except 2 shots.  It needs a damage nerf because it's still possible to do in 2 shots what it takes Spartan to do in 3.

Why do we need a non premium version of spartan carnage? That would make spartan useless since it's premium but the same thing. Brute can stay as it is, a higher burst damage weapon than spartan carnage, that makes it unique. Although brute might need a little damage nerf.

[W.H.I.T.E.O.U.T]

13 hours ago, SawzAll said:

You're referring to Frantic Brute?

Honestly, I'll repeat what I said on another thread: I think Frantic Brute should be made identical to Spartan Carnage except 2 shots.  It needs a damage nerf because it's still possible to do in 2 shots what it takes Spartan to do in 3.

Frantic Brute is already like a F2P's Spartan Carnage. As to how:

The Differences

- Has just about the same energy cost but twice the heat gen (30/70 vs 31/31)

- Has only 2 shots while Spartan Carnage has 3

- Weighs 1kg less than Spartan Carnage but that's barely a difference at all

- Does 12 resist break per shot while Spartan Carnage does 15 per shot

- Has a wider damage range, which provides a higher damage cap at the cost of more damage inconsistency, while Spartan Carnage has a much more narrow damage range, which provides a more consistent set of results at the cost of lower maximum damage (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this, Spartan Carnage users.)

- Has a lower shot damage total than Carnage (Brute = 618 * 2 = 1236 / Carnage = 490 * 3 = 1470; Carnage can do +234 damage over Brute if all their shots hit max damage every time)(Note: This excludes resist break.)

The Similarities

- Are heavily spammable for physical weapons

- Are 3-6 range to maximize that annoyance factor against Malice Beam and Corrupt Light users

- Used for high physical damage capabilities that mainly rely on RNG and are hated by users when they hit too low and hated by targets when they hit too high

 

Conclusion

Both Frantic Brute and Spartan Carnage are similar in terms of purpose and functionality but Spartan Carnage has a slightly higher edge due to certain aspects of the Brute holding it back. However, that slightly higher edge doesn't mean much since both weapons rely on RNG in order to perform and have both rewarding crits and disappointing minimums.

But hey, hopefully this managed to clear some things up.. If not, feel free to correct me but don't jump me for comparing two similar weapons due to the famous state of one and the infamous state of the other.

Bonus!

Out of curiosity, I did the damage calculation with the minimum damage potentials of both weapons:

Frantic Brute: 246 * 2 = 492

Spartan Carnage: 286 * 3 = 858

So, Spartan Carnage is capable of outdamaging the Brute if their shots hit the bare minimum (still excluding resist break here).. And as for the overall damage potential.. Well..

Frantic Brute: 492 - 1236

Spartan Carnage: 858 - 1470

That 3rd shot really does make a difference in the long run, especially when you're dual-wielding Spartans.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by W.H.I.T.E.O.U.T (see edit history)

[OKI DOKI]

4 minutes ago, W.H.I.T.E.O.U.T said:

Frantic Brute is already like a F2P's Spartan Carnage. As to how:

The Differences

- Has just about the same energy cost but twice the heat gen (30/70 vs 31/31)

- Has only 2 shots while Spartan Carnage has 3

- Weighs 1kg less than Spartan Carnage but that's barely a difference at all

- Does 12 resist break per shot while Spartan Carnage does 15 per shot

- Has a wider damage range, which provides a higher damage cap at the cost of more damage inconsistency, while Spartan Carnage has a much more narrow damage range, which provides a more consistent set of results at the cost of lower maximum damage (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this, Spartan Carnage users.)

- Has a lower shot damage total than Carnage (Brute = 618 * 2 = 1236 / Carnage = 490 * 3 = 1470; Carnage can do +234 damage over Brute if all their shots hit max damage every time)(Note: This excludes resist break.)

The Similarities

- Are heavily spammable for physical weapons

- Are 3-6 range to maximize that annoyance factor against Malice Beam and Corrupt Light users

- Used for high physical damage capabilities that mainly rely on RNG and are hated by users when they hit too low and hated by targets when they hit too high

 

Conclusion

Both Frantic Brute and Spartan Carnage are similar in terms of purpose and functionality but Spartan Carnage has a slightly higher edge due to certain aspects of the Brute holding it back. However, that slightly higher edge doesn't mean much since both weapons rely on RNG in order to perform and have both rewarding crits and disappointing minimums.

But hey, hopefully this managed to clear some things up.. If not, feel free to correct me but don't jump me for comparing two similar weapons due to the famous state of one and the infamous state of the other.

Bonus!

Out of curiosity, I did the damage calculation with the minimum damage potentials of both weapons:

Frantic Brute: 246 * 2 = 492

Spartan Carnage: 286 * 3 = 858

So, Spartan Carnage is capable of outdamaging the Brute if their shots hit the bare minimum (still excluding resist break here).. And as for the overall damage potential.. Well..

Frantic Brute: 492 - 1236

Spartan Carnage: 858 - 1470

Welp, that 3rd shot really does make a difference in the long run, especially when you're dual-wielding Spartans.

 

 

 

Nice. well put bro. 

Before were not understanding

Then W.H.I.T.E.O.U.T. clarified 

and a new robot born 

and then Spartan 

and kicked Brute hard

Then everyone were happy and celebrate and cheers

[W.H.I.T.E.O.U.T]

1 minute ago, OKI DOKI said:

Before were not understanding

Basically, Frantic Brute and Spartan Carnage are capable of beating one another in terms of damage but Spartan Carnage has an edge due to having a 3rd shot.

Wait- Was that a summary of this whole topic?

Edited April 30, 2021 by W.H.I.T.E.O.U.T (see edit history)