2021 META

[Deimos]

7 minutes ago, Frero said:

Definitely, RNG is always involved, but the probability of all your shots (drone included) of hitting so terribly that your superior mech loses to a weaker one anyways, are very low.

The mech corrections I sent, are, in my opinion, the corrected META mechs. Reign has some good players, but many Reign players are quite terrible, and have just payed money to get where they are, like in most other top clans. Some players, like Lord Gorgon, have never boosted, or been involved in all this shitty top clan nonsense. He remains the only one to have tested manifold heat mechs, multiple times, so as to get the most reliable data. While we can definitely cut some slack, we can also edit this META listing in my opinion. Some edits are very simple (changing the legs on energy double shotgun, removing the mercy spartan mech that is barely used, changing the LPV on heat double shotgun to MPV, and so on, please read my previous reply for more detailed descriptions)

 

 

 

The META can be boiled down quite easily,

 

  Reveal hidden contents

First, you have your conventional hugger:

Variations include: taking off Superb Charge Engine and one Fractured Basalt Dissolver for a Double Teleporter, or changing one Quad Core Booster to an Overload Preventor, and adding a Common Teleporter.

There is also:

This mech is only played in this variation, if one wishes to run a soft energy counter (for some weird reason), one can change the torso to an LPV.

 

This mech is disputed, but generally accepted to be viable at rank 1:

Changing one Quad Core Booster for an Overload Preventor will allow you to put a Superb Charge Engine.

 

Here we have Heat Double Shotgun, the least common of all the Double Shotguns:

 

The energy meta is much smaller:

  Reveal hidden contents

This mech is an old one, the energy hugger sees much less use, but Void Drifter gets rank 1, and top 10 with it consistently:

 

Double Valiant Sniper, strong especially against huggers and energy dependant physical mechs:

@Pavke, the reason it is not useable with 588 energy capacity and 408 regeneration is as follows (I have also tested those modules, and they do not work): If fighting another energy mech: your weapons require, a minimum of 62+50 energy each turn, meaning that to be able to fire both your valiants and your drone, you need 112 energy, making your viable capacity only 476, which is very easy to drain, furthermore, even if drained, your opponent only has to drain 408-111=277 energy to stop your valiants and drone from firing, or to have you end up with less energy than you ended the previous turn with, very few weapon combos do not drain 276 energy, which is why a minimum of 700 capacity is needed, to allow the deficit between your regeneration, and the amount of energy you use to withstand more than 1/2 turns. Furthermore, the low heat cap means that you will not be able to combo 2 energy weapons together, which is what is needed to ensure the drainage of your opponent. Which is why nobody plays 588-408 double valiant.

 

Lastly, there is energy double shotgun, a very strong mech, also specialised against huggers.

 

Last but not least, the physical meta:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Energy free physical:

 

  Hide contents

There are two options:

The first version is less used, but both remain decently viable.

 

Then there is Double Spartan Carnage:

  Hide contents

Both versions are viable, however, it is more often seen as a counter than as a rounded mech.

And finally, Physical Double Shotgun:

I am not 100% certain of the utilities in this mech.

 

This is my view of the meta, from my extended experiences in rank 1.

Finally someone with actual experience speaking up about this. I agree with you on the majority except those spartans, if they don't have at least one armor drainer they're not viable.

[Pavke]

12 minutes ago, Deimos said:

Phys resistance is the biggest issue, also it's not about resistance but about the ability to fight huggers. That's not really doable when your heat legs will be doing 10 damage against their full 140 resist.

There's no problem with the teleport other than it being dead weight, it's just useless on that build especially since it's en-free. Dropping it in favor of phys legs is the right thing to do.

OEMP + drone shot and you're drained. That 400 regen won't be enough to save you with that low of a cap, especially on a build where literally everything is energy reliant.

If you're stuck in a corner you use the hammer, the only range where you can't use it would be 4 and that's already valiant range. It's literally only good for one specific situation and that is being stuck in a corner fighting a heat mech that happened to overheat you at that very moment. I'd rather stake it on higher energy that gives you actual chance against other drainers.

You are literally incorrect. The whole point of heat legs on mechs that are not heat is to add more resistance for heat so you take less damage from heat mechs INCLUDING huggers. All you need to do is shutdown + mercy and let the drone do the job. If you spawn at range 1 against a hugger you are dead 80% of the times anyways. Hope that your drone and mercy do good damage.

Just because mech is physical doesn't mean you need to use all the items that are in the same element (in this case legs). If you really knew about meta as you say, you would know this already. 

I don't remember players being able to pull out a drone and do OEMP first turn? I thought we only had one action point, hmm...

Edited January 22, 2022 by Pavke (see edit history)

[SawzAll]

1 minute ago, Pavke said:

The whole point of heat legs on items that are not heat is to add more resistance for heat so you take less damage from heat mechs INCLUDING huggers

Well, that's the whole point of some people putting heat legs on all their mechs.  I don't.  I put the legs of the type the mech is when I'm fighting in the arena, because if I end up having to stomp for whatever reason, I want the damage to synergize with what type resistance I've been draining.

So if I'm using a physical jumper and I reduce their resistance from 180 to 60, and then as we're fighting it keeps being reduced and then somehow I end up needing to stomp, my stomp will be fighting like 20-30 res or whatever.  If my legs are heat and they still have like 120+ heat res because I didn't drain their heat res (physical jumper), I'm fighting against 120 heat res when I stomp, which could cost me a game.

Don't get me wrong, Pavke, I know you're a rank 1 player and (if I had to guess) you are more correct than I am.  But I just don't do the heat legs.  Still, you are correct and that's why heat legs are used.  And I understand why.  But seeing as rank 1 players put this list together, I wasn't going to argue against them.  Heat legs on everything just isn't me.  It's a valid tactic, it's just not me.

[Pavke]

5 minutes ago, SawzAll said:

Well, that's the whole point of some people putting heat legs on all their mechs.  I don't.  I put the legs of the type the mech is when I'm fighting in the arena, because if I end up having to stomp for whatever reason, I want the damage to synergize with what type resistance I've been draining.

So if I'm using a physical jumper and I reduce their resistance from 180 to 60, and then as we're fighting it keeps being reduced and then somehow I end up needing to stomp, my stomp will be fighting like 20-30 res or whatever.  If my legs are heat and they still have like 120+ heat res because I didn't drain their heat res (physical jumper), I'm fighting against 120 heat res when I stomp, which could cost me a game.

Don't get me wrong, Pavke, I know you're a rank 1 player and (if I had to guess) you are more correct than I am.  But I just don't do the heat legs.  Still, you are correct and that's why heat legs are used.  And I understand why.  But seeing as rank 1 players put this list together, I wasn't going to argue against them.  Heat legs on everything just isn't me.  It's a valid tactic, it's just not me.

To make it clear, I'm not saying every mech should use heat legs. If you have range 1 weapons (not swords or saws) then you most of the times go with heat legs to increase that heat resistance. Physical one is already high on its own with vest and a physical resistance. 

[Deimos]

12 minutes ago, Pavke said:

You are literally incorrect. The whole point of heat legs on mechs that are not heat is to add more resistance for heat so you take less damage from heat mechs INCLUDING huggers. All you need to do is shutdown + mercy and let the drone do the job. If you spawn at range 1 against a hugger you are dead 80% of the times anyways. Hope that your drone and mercy do good damage.

That won't matter if you won't deal enough damage to kill them once you run out of Mercy uses. 

13 minutes ago, Pavke said:

Just because mech is physical doesn't mean you need to use all the items that are in the same element (in this case legs). If you really knew about meta as you say, you would know this already. 

I'm aware. This mech however only has a single range 1-2 weapon so if you want to do enough damage for it to matter you need legs that will benefit from the res drainers. Mercy is super volatile and it needs the extra damage if you want to stand a chance against huggers.

16 minutes ago, Pavke said:

I don't remember players being able to pull out a drone and do OEMP first turn? I thought we only had one action point, hmm...

Literally who said that other than yourself? Only an idiot would use OEMP in their first turn. I'm talking about situations where you're the one starting and even Frero has said you're wrong so might as well stop coping.

9 minutes ago, Pavke said:

To make it clear, I'm not saying every mech should use heat legs. If you have range 1 weapons (not swords or saws) then you most of the times go with heat legs to increase that heat resistance. Physical one is already high on its own with vest and a physical resistance. 

Phys legs are objectively the best if you have the weight. You're forgetting they also give 60 extra health than their elemental counterparts so that accounts for the less explosive resist.

[Pavke]

5 minutes ago, Deimos said:

That won't matter if you won't deal enough damage to kill them once you run out of Mercy uses. 

I'm aware. This mech however only has a single range 1-2 weapon so if you want to do enough damage for it to matter you need legs that will benefit from the res drainers. Mercy is super volatile and it needs the extra damage if you want to stand a chance against huggers.

Literally who said that other than yourself? Only an idiot would use OEMP in their first turn. I'm talking about situations where you're the one starting and even Frero has said you're wrong so might as well stop coping.

What rank are you? OEMP first turn is literally doable sometimes. Why is your concern always around huggers? It's not like there are dozens of other builds in arena but yea let's build a mech to counter huggers only. Learn that not a single mech can win every fight.

Perhaps learn how to read. Frero literally corrected your statement and said that teleport is needed lmao.

Edited January 22, 2022 by Pavke (see edit history)

[Deimos]

1 minute ago, Pavke said:

OEMP first turn is literally doable sometimes.

"Sometimes" is not when your opponent is a drain-based energy mech. It won't drain them and you're only reducing your energy for their turn. Fool's errand.

4 minutes ago, Pavke said:

Perhaps learn how to read. Frero literally corrected your statement and said that teleport is needed lmao.

Yes, but he also said that you're wrong on the low energy cap and provided a better variant so keep huffing

[Lord Gorgon]

41 minutes ago, Frero said:

Definitely, RNG is always involved, but the probability of all your shots (drone included) of hitting so terribly that your superior mech loses to a weaker one anyways, are very low.

The mech corrections I sent, are, in my opinion, the corrected META mechs. Reign has some good players, but many Reign players are quite terrible, and have just payed money to get where they are, like in most other top clans. Some players, like Lord Gorgon, have never boosted, or been involved in all this shitty top clan nonsense. He remains the only one to have tested manifold heat mechs, multiple times, so as to get the most reliable data. While we can definitely cut some slack, we can also edit this META listing in my opinion. Some edits are very simple (changing the legs on energy double shotgun, removing the mercy spartan mech that is barely used, changing the LPV on heat double shotgun to MPV, and so on, please read my previous reply for more detailed descriptions)

 

 

 

The META can be boiled down quite easily,

 

  Hide contents

First, you have your conventional hugger:

Variations include: taking off Superb Charge Engine and one Fractured Basalt Dissolver for a Double Teleporter, or changing one Quad Core Booster to an Overload Preventor, and adding a Common Teleporter.

There is also:

This mech is only played in this variation, if one wishes to run a soft energy counter (for some weird reason), one can change the torso to an LPV.

 

This mech is disputed, but generally accepted to be viable at rank 1:

Changing one Quad Core Booster for an Overload Preventor will allow you to put a Superb Charge Engine.

 

Here we have Heat Double Shotgun, the least common of all the Double Shotguns:

 

The energy meta is much smaller:

  Reveal hidden contents

This mech is an old one, the energy hugger sees much less use, but Void Drifter gets rank 1, and top 10 with it consistently:

 

Double Valiant Sniper, strong especially against huggers and energy dependant physical mechs:

@Pavke, the reason it is not useable with 588 energy capacity and 408 regeneration is as follows (I have also tested those modules, and they do not work): If fighting another energy mech: your weapons require, a minimum of 62+50 energy each turn, meaning that to be able to fire both your valiants and your drone, you need 112 energy, making your viable capacity only 476, which is very easy to drain, furthermore, even if drained, your opponent only has to drain 408-111=277 energy to stop your valiants and drone from firing, or to have you end up with less energy than you ended the previous turn with, very few weapon combos do not drain 276 energy, which is why a minimum of 700 capacity is needed, to allow the deficit between your regeneration, and the amount of energy you use to withstand more than 1/2 turns. Furthermore, the low heat cap means that you will not be able to combo 2 energy weapons together, which is what is needed to ensure the drainage of your opponent. Which is why nobody plays 588-408 double valiant.

 

Lastly, there is energy double shotgun, a very strong mech, also specialised against huggers.

 

Last but not least, the physical meta:

  Hide contents

 

 

Energy free physical:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

There are two options:

The first version is less used, but both remain decently viable.

 

Then there is Double Spartan Carnage:

  Reveal hidden contents

Both versions are viable, however, it is more often seen as a counter than as a rounded mech.

And finally, Physical Double Shotgun:

I am not 100% certain of the utilities in this mech.

 

This is my view of the meta, from my extended experiences in rank 1.

I dont know your IGN, but thats a good listing. I have 1 comment: the best dual red rain version is that one. Has dual tp and hook.

Id also add the following build to the list. Has swoop and hook.

[Pavke]

9 minutes ago, Deimos said:

"Sometimes" is not when your opponent is a drain-based energy mech. It won't drain them and you're only reducing your energy for their turn. Fool's errand.

Yes, but he also said that you're wrong on the low energy cap and provided a better variant so keep huffing

Not using a teleport on a double valiant mech is literally the dumbest decision you could possibly make. He traded energy resistance for a quad, which i personally wouldn't do, I still stick by that you don't need that much energy cap on a douvle valiant mech. Based on my experience with those type of mechs I came to that conclusion. 

You still didn't reply to me, what rank are you? Some of the things you say are very questionable and won't be heard from anyone that is a rank 1 or so.

Also, if you are out of arguments, sending memes about someone "coping" or whatever shit you meant doesn't help you. If you can't keep up, just leave the topic.

Edited January 22, 2022 by Pavke (see edit history)

[SawzAll]

20 minutes ago, Pavke said:

Also, if you are out of arguments, sending memes about someone "coping" or whatever shit you meant doesn't help you. If you can't keep up, just leave the topic.

I blocked him yesterday LOL you might benefit from doing the same.

He won't answer rank questions, and I think that's probably the most telling issue.  While the arena and this game are rather random, arena rank can and does indicate experience.  I mean, I fought Mechzilla yesterday at rank 3 due to a random match-up, so I wouldn't say Mechzilla is suddenly a rank 3 player, because I pay attention to the leader boards.

Rank doesn't make someone right, but it's a huge factor that indicates whether someone's opinion is probably trustworthy.  So just do what I did: block him.  Then maybe 3-6 months down the road, unblock, if you're bored.

[Deimos]

16 minutes ago, Pavke said:

Not using a teleport on a double valiant mech is literally the dumbest decision you could possibly make. He traded energy resistance for a quad, which i personally wouldn't do, I still stick by that you don't need that much energy cap on a douvle valiant mech. Based on my experience with those type of mechs I came to that conclusion. 

You still didn't reply to me, what rank are you? Some of the things you say are very questionable and won't be heard from anyone that is a rank 1 or so.

Have some consistency my guy. Not admitting fault when multiple people prove you wrong isn't a good look, makes you look like you have a massive ego. I said that having a teleport and also a good mod setup isn't possible on that particular mech so I chose better mod setup to which I was proven wrong by Frero who managed to cram in both. I still stand behind my decision that I would rather have better energy stats than a teleport if you could only have one and you can keep coping in being wrong.

3 minutes ago, SawzAll said:

I blocked him yesterday LOL you might benefit from doing the same.

He won't answer rank questions, and I think that's probably the most telling issue.  While the arena and this game are rather random, arena rank can and does indicate experience.  I mean, I fought Mechzilla yesterday at rank 3 due to a random match-up, so I wouldn't say Mechzilla is suddenly a rank 3 player, because I pay attention to the leader boards.

Rank doesn't make someone right, but it's a huge factor that indicates whether someone's opinion is probably trustworthy.  So just do what I did: block him.  Then maybe 3-6 months down the road, unblock, if you're bored.

What not accepting different opinions does to a mf 

Rank doesn't mean shit, this was mine last season and I got there while lacking several META items. Unless you're consistently placing at the very top your opinions are not better than anyone else's.

[Frero]

3 hours ago, Deimos said:

That won't matter if you won't deal enough damage to kill them once you run out of Mercy uses. 

I'm aware. This mech however only has a single range 1-2 weapon so if you want to do enough damage for it to matter you need legs that will benefit from the res drainers. Mercy is super volatile and it needs the extra damage if you want to stand a chance against huggers.

Literally who said that other than yourself? Only an idiot would use OEMP in their first turn. I'm talking about situations where you're the one starting and even Frero has said you're wrong so might as well stop coping.

Phys legs are objectively the best if you have the weight. You're forgetting they also give 60 extra health than their elemental counterparts so that accounts for the less explosive resist.

The solution is simple: weight, you use the heat legs because, 99% of the time, your weapons+ drone do enough damage without needing to resort to a stomp (yes, even against huggers).

I have had only one match where the opponent had to stomp and lost because of that, and I have played over 100k matches for sure by now 

I'm by no means an authority, I presented my argument for why I think 508-488 is wrong, not sure if @Pavke agrees or disagrees, but that's what my experience playing that mech is.....

 

3 hours ago, Deimos said:

Have some consistency my guy. Not admitting fault when multiple people prove you wrong isn't a good look, makes you look like you have a massive ego. I said that having a teleport and also a good mod setup isn't possible on that particular mech so I chose better mod setup to which I was proven wrong by Frero who managed to cram in both. I still stand behind my decision that I would rather have better energy stats than a teleport if you could only have one and you can keep coping in being wrong.

What not accepting different opinions does to a mf 

Rank doesn't mean shit, this was mine last season and I got there while lacking several META items. Unless you're consistently placing at the very top your opinions are not better than anyone else's.

Anyone can get rank 1 nowadays, with any mech, I have used mechs which lose to rank 5 people and gotten rank 1, it's easy.

 

The problem with double Valiant Sniper, is that you need the teleporter, even if that means having slightly worse stats, however the 588-408 is completely not viable, therefore, I would play the module set up I sent.

 

Anyways, if anyone knows what the utilities are on physical double shotgun, I would be much obliged.

3 hours ago, Lord Gorgon said:

I dont know your IGN, but thats a good listing. I have 1 comment: the best dual red rain version is that one. Has dual tp and hook.

Id also add the following build to the list. Has swoop and hook.

I actually had the second build in my workshop unlimited, however, was not willing to input it, since I was not certain of the module choice. So red rain with less hp but very high regen/cooling, interesting, I will add that to my meta team on WU, maybe I'll make my own topic soon.

3 hours ago, Pavke said:

Not using a teleport on a double valiant mech is literally the dumbest decision you could possibly make. He traded energy resistance for a quad, which i personally wouldn't do, I still stick by that you don't need that much energy cap on a douvle valiant mech. Based on my experience with those type of mechs I came to that conclusion. 

You still didn't reply to me, what rank are you? Some of the things you say are very questionable and won't be heard from anyone that is a rank 1 or so.

Also, if you are out of arguments, sending memes about someone "coping" or whatever shit you meant doesn't help you. If you can't keep up, just leave the topic.

I found that energy drainers do not need energy resistance, since there are only 2 players who play purely energy free energy mechs, Gospon Zgonci, Nikos (almost purely). That's why I think it's more worth it to have the Quad Core Booster, an alternative set up is:

And also this:

Supposing you want all 3 kinds of resistance.

 

I was wondering if this would not be better, @Lord Gorgon

Edited January 22, 2022 by Frero (see edit history)

[Deimos]

11 minutes ago, Frero said:

maybe I'll make my own topic soon.

Please do, you actually know what you're talking about unlike the guy who made this thread.

[Avrora]

you guys so obseessed with meta tbh.. also don forget about different seasons, what effective in 1vs1 not gonna work same way in 3vs3 and opposite. if not include that 1vs1 is mostly lottery and countering-hunting circus 

[Frero]

2 minutes ago, PaintedAshwithSnow said:

you guys so obseessed with meta tbh.. also don forget about different seasons, what effective in 1vs1 not gonna work same way in 3vs3 and opposite. if not include that 1vs1 is mostly lottery and countering-hunting circus 

I have no clue about mechs outside of 1v1

[Monke King]

Damn it took me one hour to read all of this. It looks like your on a heated discussion.

I don’t know about meta but I think all of the builds are fine.

[SawzAll]

2 hours ago, PaintedAshwithSnow said:

you guys so obseessed with meta tbh.. also don forget about different seasons, what effective in 1vs1 not gonna work same way in 3vs3 and opposite. if not include that 1vs1 is mostly lottery and countering-hunting circus 

Yeah and that's one flaw in CleverName's META listings I plan to correct.

Here, by the way, are the long awaited LG 3v3 heat mech teams (two of them).  I have LG's permission.

 

[ZeRo_]

Small update, fixed some of the builds such as pys dual shotty, dual Magma Blast and dual Spartan. If anyone got any builds that are missing or either wrong, please post them. I appreciate every feedback I can get.

[Stelight]

I propose a build, it does not come from me but from a player who rank 1 one time 

However i don't know enought about meta to say if this meta and in what season is viable

[SawzAll]

4 hours ago, ZeRo_ said:

Small update, fixed some of the builds such as pys dual shotty, dual Magma Blast and dual Spartan. If anyone got any builds that are missing or either wrong, please post them. I appreciate every feedback I can get.

Good job, mate.  Just keep in mind that only other rank 1 players are "worthy" to submit changes, and you, as a rank 1 player, ultimately determine what your listing will contain.  For example, the person I blocked in this thread, they're not rank 1 (they won't answer, so that's probably why) and their builds aren't worth including so far.

4 hours ago, Electro said:

I propose a build, it does not come from me but from a player who rank 1 one time 

However i don't know enought about meta to say if this meta and in what season is viable

Thanks for at least being humble enough to admit you might not know.  We don't know for sure if their build is just a "display build" or one they actually use, but thanks  for your submission.  I'm sure ZeRo will look at it in a minute.

[The_Real_Ramsay49]

8 hours ago, SawzAll said:

Good job, mate.  Just keep in mind that only other rank 1 players are "worthy" to submit changes, and you, as a rank 1 player, ultimately determine what your listing will contain.  For example, the person I blocked in this thread, they're not rank 1 (they won't answer, so that's probably why) and their builds aren't worth including so far.

Thanks for at least being humble enough to admit you might not know.  We don't know for sure if their build is just a "display build" or one they actually use, but thanks  for your submission.  I'm sure ZeRo will look at it in a minute.

Yea Killua uses it. I don’t run scopes and don’t come up against scopes enough to call it meta but it rlly all depends on your own mobility and the starting range

[Frero]

14 hours ago, SawzAll said:

Good job, mate.  Just keep in mind that only other rank 1 players are "worthy" to submit changes, and you, as a rank 1 player, ultimately determine what your listing will contain.  For example, the person I blocked in this thread, they're not rank 1 (they won't answer, so that's probably why) and their builds aren't worth including so far.

Thanks for at least being humble enough to admit you might not know.  We don't know for sure if their build is just a "display build" or one they actually use, but thanks  for your submission.  I'm sure ZeRo will look at it in a minute.

He was rank 1, he later sent proof

Interesting scope build, my listing also contains none, due to my inexperience.

[Lord Gorgon]

On 1/23/2022 at 2:01 AM, SawzAll said:

Yeah and that's one flaw in CleverName's META listings I plan to correct.

Here, by the way, are the long awaited LG 3v3 heat mech teams (two of them).  I have LG's permission.

 

These were the times i was experimenting on nightmare. Those arent competitive. Only viable torsos at tops are vests. Sad reality. 

Ping me if you need any updated top notch heat teams.

[Frero]

7 hours ago, Lord Gorgon said:

These were the times i was experimenting on nightmare. Those arent competitive. Only viable torsos at tops are vests. Sad reality. 

Ping me if you need any updated top notch heat teams.

Throwback to this (pardon the modules)

[Stelight]

25 minutes ago, Frero said:

Throwback to this (pardon the modules)

is simply a variants of the heat meta 1 vs 1, maybe i think ( i am at rank 12 do not consider this advice to be reliable ) replace a quadcore by a overload preventor can be better .

Edited January 24, 2022 by Electro (see edit history)