2021 META

[Deimos]

4 minutes ago, The_Real_Ramsay49 said:

If I’m being honest, for a long time and probably still now I only tried to make meta and was oblivious to seeing how to actually play smart with my items.   Now I try to experiment around more and try not to rely solely on meta

That's good since it's important to know how to make good builds for every rank bracket, for example builds that excel at the top wouldn't work in lower ranks since at the top drain/boiler mechs are rarely seen so the builds are shaped around that with less heat/energy stats and more health.

[Santa Claus]

very true

45 minutes ago, The_Real_Ramsay49 said:

All I’m gonna say, is idk why meta need to be posted.  For example, when I was a new player I loved watching all the vets replays to see what kind of builds they ran…. And kinda determined which ones were the best in my opinion and which ones I wanted

part of the game should be the lower level players research into better builds, not just us giving them to them and saying “here you go, good luck getting the items. This is what works “  

 

[The_Real_Ramsay49]

6 minutes ago, Deimos said:

That's good since it's important to know how to make good builds for every rank bracket, for example builds that excel at the top wouldn't work in lower ranks since at the top drain/boiler mechs are rarely seen so the builds are shaped around that with less heat/energy stats and more health.

I don’t know where you get that conclusion, most top rank balanced builds can beat a r3- boiler/drainer because of the lack of hp lol or at least in my case

[Stelight]

4 hours ago, The_Real_Ramsay49 said:

All I’m gonna say, is idk why meta need to be posted.  For example, when I was a new player I loved watching all the vets replays to see what kind of builds they ran…. And kinda determined which ones were the best in my opinion and which ones I wanted

part of the game should be the lower level players research into better builds, not just us giving them to them and saying “here you go, good luck getting the items. This is what works “

That not for disrecpect you but take this topic as an options, in games there is not only the strategic side but also the "fun" side if you play the items that you like to play them .

I understand your feeling but is a topic, it allows you informed if you want .

Edited January 20, 2022 by Electro (see edit history)

[Deimos]

1 minute ago, Electro said:

take this topic as an options, in games there is not only the strategic side but also the "fun" side if you play the items that you like to play them .

I understand your feeling but is a topic, it allows you informed if ou want .

Main thing is that this thread is pointless since there wasn't enough of a change to warrant a new list.

[The_Real_Ramsay49]

21 minutes ago, Electro said:

That not for disrecpect you but take this topic as an options, in games there is not only the strategic side but also the "fun" side if you play the items that you like to play them .

I understand your feeling but is a topic, it allows you informed if you want .

 

16 minutes ago, Deimos said:

Main thing is that this thread is pointless since there wasn't enough of a change to warrant a new list.

Ye both got fax

[SawzAll]

On 1/20/2022 at 9:21 AM, Deimos said:

It's an improved version of CleverName's build

Nonsense. Please shut your butt cheeks, because you're talking out your but, and it smells horrible. Mechzilla's off handed remark in discord about how horrible that build is, that's enough for me to know you don't know what you're talking about. I ignored the rest of your reply. Another reply and I'll just block you because I don't have time for this.

But by all means, if you want to make yourself look worse, keep talking. I won't hold you back from your folly.

On 1/20/2022 at 9:26 AM, The_Real_Ramsay49 said:

All I’m gonna say, is idk why meta need to be posted.  For example, when I was a new player I loved watching all the vets replays to see what kind of builds they ran…. And kinda determined which ones were the best in my opinion and which ones I wanted

part of the game should be the lower level players research into better builds, not just us giving them to them and saying “here you go, good luck getting the items. This is what works “  

Because in this game, focusing your time and resources in items that matter in terms of META can help people get to top ranks faster. It already takes a very long time as is.

META provides a service to the community.

I had created a middle ranks "meta" read in the past. You can search it and find it. Lots of good non-premium builds that can give some premium builds a run for their money.

On 1/20/2022 at 1:32 PM, Deimos said:

Main thing is that this thread is pointless since there wasn't enough of a change to warrant a new list.

And just minutes ago you were saying your ugly horrible build needs to be on the meta, hence you essentially asked for another listing. Please make up your mind and (again) close your legs.

[Deimos]

6 minutes ago, SawzAll said:

Nonsense. Please shut your butt cheeks, because you're talking out your but, and it smells horrible.

You're talking like a fourth grader, now I feel bad for insulting a child.

[WarrMachine]

What an absolute joke of a thread, no representation of the actual ebbs and flows that occur within rank 1 usage rates. No, I'm not going to waste my time compiling my own thread to counter this one, anyone with half a braincell will know to look at the leaderboards and get a general understanding of what to shoot for.

Doubling down on that point, I've always disliked the use of these threads. You're just pointing to what everyone else uses instead of encouraging originality, which is the driving force that gets these things built in the first place. 

Also no offense to ZeRo here, but he has no solo medals and personally I've never even seen him finish a week (the point at which one's rank actually matters) in the top 10 before. I'm sure his intentions with these builds are fine, but Sawz trying to hold this dude on a pedestal with a single screenshot (with the "show online" option checked too LOL) is just complete nonsense. Sawz I'd really like to give you the benefit of the doubt with your intentions here, but seeing as to how you conduct yourself around literally anyone who disagrees with you has me second guessing. Please get your ego in check brother.

For anyone else still reading this thread, if you want meta, here's your goddamn meta. 

Energy Dependent and Energy Independent Phys.

Spoiler

Energy Dependent Heat.

Spoiler

Damage Based and Drain Based Energy.

Spoiler

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by WarrMachine (see edit history)

[Ozen]

14 minutes ago, WarrMachine said:

What an absolute joke of a thread

Definitely didn't just slap dual mods onto a counter and take off a plate to make them fit

[SawzAll]

3 hours ago, Deimos said:

You're talking like a fourth grader, now I feel bad for insulting a child.

Lol you're funny. You post a garbage build, insisting it needs to be on the new META, and when someone tells you it's garbage you just get upset.

Even in my most toxic new player days, I never replied to a META topic made by A RANK 1 TOP 10 PLAYER to insist my garbage build needs to be meta.

And your insults don't even phase me either. Not like I care. Your persona on here is literally a waste of time. I'm probably higher in rank than you (probably in both my accounts) and I know better than to tell someone like Zero, with more rank, medals, and experience than me, that I'm right and he's wrong.

So I'm going to block you now because you can't learn when to shut up. Even writing this is a waste of time.

2 hours ago, WarrMachine said:

Also no offense to ZeRo here, but he has no solo medals

You say you're not going to put out a meta listing but you include mechs. I'm not sure what you're up to. Is this jealousy? Or are you trying to contribute? 

And honestly why would zeros medals matter for this project if he has people with solo medals collaborating with him on this listing?

Is this just more of the same toxicity that is characteristic of this forum?

[Lord Gorgon]

Summarized thoughts:

Noobs

[Frero]

12 hours ago, SawzAll said:

Nonsense. Please shut your butt cheeks, because you're talking out your but, and it smells horrible. Mechzilla's off handed remark in discord about how horrible that build is, that's enough for me to know you don't know what you're talking about. I ignored the rest of your reply. Another reply and I'll just block you because I don't have time for this.

But by all means, if you want to make yourself look worse, keep talking. I won't hold you back from your folly.

Because in this game, focusing your time and resources in items that matter in terms of META can help people get to top ranks faster. It already takes a very long time as is.

META provides a service to the community.

I had created a middle ranks "meta" read in the past. You can search it and find it. Lots of good non-premium builds that can give some premium builds a run for their money.

And just minutes ago you were saying your ugly horrible build needs to be on the meta, hence you essentially asked for another listing. Please make up your mind and (again) close your legs.

Calm down, the builds are not the best, although there are enough changes to warrant new builds.

11 hours ago, WarrMachine said:

What an absolute joke of a thread, no representation of the actual ebbs and flows that occur within rank 1 usage rates. No, I'm not going to waste my time compiling my own thread to counter this one, anyone with half a braincell will know to look at the leaderboards and get a general understanding of what to shoot for.

Doubling down on that point, I've always disliked the use of these threads. You're just pointing to what everyone else uses instead of encouraging originality, which is the driving force that gets these things built in the first place. 

Also no offense to ZeRo here, but he has no solo medals and personally I've never even seen him finish a week (the point at which one's rank actually matters) in the top 10 before. I'm sure his intentions with these builds are fine, but Sawz trying to hold this dude on a pedestal with a single screenshot (with the "show online" option checked too LOL) is just complete nonsense. Sawz I'd really like to give you the benefit of the doubt with your intentions here, but seeing as to how you conduct yourself around literally anyone who disagrees with you has me second guessing. Please get your ego in check brother.

For anyone else still reading this thread, if you want meta, here's your goddamn meta. 

Energy Dependent and Energy Independent Phys.

  Hide contents

Energy Dependent Heat.

  Hide contents

Damage Based and Drain Based Energy.

  Hide contents

 

I agree, the builds are bad, although, there are 5 other heat builds at least which are functional, and that drain based energy mech is not that good (yes, I have beaten you in arena)
The range management is terrible, it suicides basically, and if the opponent has any amount of brains and regen, they will beat that mech.

And, again, I reiterate, why use heat legs on energy double shotgun, energy legs work better.

7 hours ago, Lord Gorgon said:

Summarized thoughts:

Noobs

Make a meta listing that is actually good please.

It is not that hard to make a decent meta listing

[Stelight]

Quote

I agree, the builds are bad, although, there are 5 other heat builds at least which are functional, and that drain based energy mech is not that good (yes, I have beaten you in arena)

The range management is terrible, it suicides basically, and if the opponent has any amount of brains and regen, they will beat that mech.

 

And, again, I reiterate, why use heat legs on energy double shotgun, energy legs work better.

What rank and what does your mech look like ? It not for disrespect but just looking the build is not enought to tell the build is viable or not, also need to be tested in game .

28 minutes ago, Frero said:

It is not that hard to make a decent meta listing

You are sure ? Asked top player what mech is "meta" for them and gather the build is not as easy as you think because must have in several copies of certain item something is obviously senseless in a game of chance .

[SawzAll]

2 hours ago, Frero said:

the builds are not the best

I know ZeRo's stuff isn't 100% perfect but it's a lot better than no META list.  I just felt like having some fun venting on that other jerk.

2 hours ago, Frero said:

Make a meta listing that is actually good please.

Don't bother with LG.  He complains about the META listing every time.  Even when some of his builds are included. 

[Deimos]

@SawzAll Live footage

[Frero]

Just now, SawzAll said:

I know ZeRo's stuff isn't 100% perfect but it's a lot better than no META list.  I just felt like having some fun venting on that other jerk.

ye, I would've checked a bit more, since almost all the mechs have a problem....

[SawzAll]

1 hour ago, Electro said:

also need to be tested in game

Very good point!

[Frero]

1 minute ago, SawzAll said:

I know ZeRo's stuff isn't 100% perfect but it's a lot better than no META list.  I just felt like having some fun venting on that other jerk.

why u calling me a jerk tho ?

[SawzAll]

1 hour ago, Electro said:

You are sure ? Asked top player what mech is "meta" for them and gather the build is not as easy as you think because must have in several copies of certain item something is obviously senseless in a game of chance .

Between you and @Frero I think we can discuss this politely (like we're already doing).  If you don't mind me philosophizing as a rank 2 player:

1. This is an RNG game so no matter how much inventory you have and how upgraded, you can have bad RNG days.  So I think it's more important in general to provide builds that top 10 players have used to get to the top 10.  We can all quibble about modules and how we would do things, and that's fine.  But I think the standard should be whether you've made it to top 10 with the build.
2. We cannot all be CleverName.  Hence I say we cut ZeRo some slack because he doesn't have mountains of ascension relics.  He has made it legitimately (without boosting) to the top player slot in the game, and is consistently rank 1, if not in the top 10.  He's been playing this game a very long time.  In an RNG game, we compensate for the RNG by maxing out our weapons to divine as much as we can, etc.
3. Anything we build and test in WU is max/divine, hence to a point the only way to know is to do real world in-game testing.  But since the game is RNG-based, that testing is not 100% scientific/mathematical, in the sense that you don't always get the average, nor the max or min, damage from things.  So this isn't 2+2=4, this is more like a bunch of RNG calls done by the SM server to calculate how much of a smack-down you put on people.  So, therefore, I suggest:
4. The META is a philosophy more than a math or a science.  It should, in my opinion, be a list of mechs that have made it into the top 10 player list in 1v1 (only because CleverName's list was usually more 1v1 based).  I want to add 3v3 and add LG's builds because his 3v3 heat teams are legendary.  I have them already in pictures.

And I watched ZeRo and Rambo do a TON of research and consult with MANY top 10 and rank 1 players to give us this product.  Maybe it's not perfect, but it's impossible (due to RNG) for the META listing to be 100% perfect.  And even with CleverName's listing, there were always people who said he was wrong, said he could do things better, or even said they could put out a better listing.  (Most notably LG, who says that now to ZeRo, and said that to CleverName, etc.)

So while I do admit that I may have been wrong to vent on that n00b, I think in this case I asked the n00b to stop and they didn't, so I had it out, but that's not because ZeRo is my boyfriend or something.  I'm not simping.  Instead, it's because I watched him do tons of work (and Rambo).  And I don't like it when some butthole (whoever I blocked, forgot them) poops on something that someone is doing to help the community.  Yes, I am censoring myself: I have to remember this is a 13+ yr old forum (last I checked) and that last time I went full military insult mode I got banned.  (it wasn't in here)

11 minutes ago, Frero said:

why u calling me a jerk tho ?

No, not you.  You're not the jerk.  It was whoever I blocked.

12 minutes ago, Frero said:

ye, I would've checked a bit more, since almost all the mechs have a problem....

But still, it's their first META release, so I say we should at least cut them some slack.

[Deimos]

On 1/12/2022 at 10:29 PM, SawzAll said:

Why would you use heat legs and teleport on an en-free phys build? Death to huggers guaranteed, throw that garbage away and use phys legs.

On 1/12/2022 at 10:29 PM, SawzAll said:

What are those energy stats? Get more en cap or death to other drain energy guaranteed. Chuck the tele for more weight, this build doesn't need it.

On 1/12/2022 at 10:29 PM, SawzAll said:

This is literally just a counter. How dare you post garbage like this and call it META? Are you not embarrassed?

On 1/12/2022 at 10:29 PM, SawzAll said:

Replace massive lava feet with phys variant, use single tele

On 1/12/2022 at 10:29 PM, SawzAll said:

Using flame spear on a standard magma build. Need I say more?

 

On 1/12/2022 at 10:29 PM, SawzAll said:

And just more counters.

In conclusion, don't listen to what this guy has to say, he is a clown and if this was really other people suggesting these then they're the entire circus 

[Pavke]

27 minutes ago, Deimos said:

Why would you use heat legs and teleport on an en-free phys build? Death to huggers guaranteed, throw that garbage away and use phys legs.

What are those energy stats? Get more en cap or death to other drain energy guaranteed. Chuck the tele for more weight, this build doesn't need it.

This is literally just a counter. How dare you post garbage like this and call it META? Are you not embarrassed?

Replace massive lava feet with phys variant, use single tele

Using flame spear on a standard magma build. Need I say more?

 

And just more counters.

In conclusion, don't listen to what this guy has to say, he is a clown and if this was really other people suggesting these then they're the entire circus 

I disagree with few of the builds submitted, but you also sound like you have no idea what are you talking about.

One submitted with 2x DAA is literally the best version of it. People use heat legs on most of the mechs to increase heat resistance. Also, I don't see any problem with teleport? Whats the problem with it lol

Why would you even want more cap on double valiant mech? They are cheap to use plus the mech has over 400 regen. Even if the opponent uses OEMP first turn, you can still fire those valiants. Teleport is literally a must in this kind of build. It can happen that you are stuck in a corner where you can only use piercing fox, of course you would want to get away lol. It's also good for teleport hammer combo.

Edit: You call few of the mechs that top 10 players used counters but you also submit this and say it's not a counter, like what???

Edited January 22, 2022 by Pavke (see edit history)

[Frero]

31 minutes ago, SawzAll said:

Between you and @Frero I think we can discuss this politely (like we're already doing).  If you don't mind me philosophizing as a rank 2 player:

1. This is an RNG game so no matter how much inventory you have and how upgraded, you can have bad RNG days.  So I think it's more important in general to provide builds that top 10 players have used to get to the top 10.  We can all quibble about modules and how we would do things, and that's fine.  But I think the standard should be whether you've made it to top 10 with the build.
2. We cannot all be CleverName.  Hence I say we cut ZeRo some slack because he doesn't have mountains of ascension relics.  He has made it legitimately (without boosting) to the top player slot in the game, and is consistently rank 1, if not in the top 10.  He's been playing this game a very long time.  In an RNG game, we compensate for the RNG by maxing out our weapons to divine as much as we can, etc.
3. Anything we build and test in WU is max/divine, hence to a point the only way to know is to do real world in-game testing.  But since the game is RNG-based, that testing is not 100% scientific/mathematical, in the sense that you don't always get the average, nor the max or min, damage from things.  So this isn't 2+2=4, this is more like a bunch of RNG calls done by the SM server to calculate how much of a smack-down you put on people.  So, therefore, I suggest:
4. The META is a philosophy more than a math or a science.  It should, in my opinion, be a list of mechs that have made it into the top 10 player list in 1v1 (only because CleverName's list was usually more 1v1 based).  I want to add 3v3 and add LG's builds because his 3v3 heat teams are legendary.  I have them already in pictures.

And I watched ZeRo and Rambo do a TON of research and consult with MANY top 10 and rank 1 players to give us this product.  Maybe it's not perfect, but it's impossible (due to RNG) for the META listing to be 100% perfect.  And even with CleverName's listing, there were always people who said he was wrong, said he could do things better, or even said they could put out a better listing.  (Most notably LG, who says that now to ZeRo, and said that to CleverName, etc.)

So while I do admit that I may have been wrong to vent on that n00b, I think in this case I asked the n00b to stop and they didn't, so I had it out, but that's not because ZeRo is my boyfriend or something.  I'm not simping.  Instead, it's because I watched him do tons of work (and Rambo).  And I don't like it when some butthole (whoever I blocked, forgot them) poops on something that someone is doing to help the community.  Yes, I am censoring myself: I have to remember this is a 13+ yr old forum (last I checked) and that last time I went full military insult mode I got banned.  (it wasn't in here)

No, not you.  You're not the jerk.  It was whoever I blocked.

But still, it's their first META release, so I say we should at least cut them some slack.

Definitely, RNG is always involved, but the probability of all your shots (drone included) of hitting so terribly that your superior mech loses to a weaker one anyways, are very low.

The mech corrections I sent, are, in my opinion, the corrected META mechs. Reign has some good players, but many Reign players are quite terrible, and have just payed money to get where they are, like in most other top clans. Some players, like Lord Gorgon, have never boosted, or been involved in all this shitty top clan nonsense. He remains the only one to have tested manifold heat mechs, multiple times, so as to get the most reliable data. While we can definitely cut some slack, we can also edit this META listing in my opinion. Some edits are very simple (changing the legs on energy double shotgun, removing the mercy spartan mech that is barely used, changing the LPV on heat double shotgun to MPV, and so on, please read my previous reply for more detailed descriptions)

 

 

 

The META can be boiled down quite easily,

 

Spoiler

First, you have your conventional hugger:

Variations include: taking off Superb Charge Engine and one Fractured Basalt Dissolver for a Double Teleporter, or changing one Quad Core Booster to an Overload Preventor, and adding a Common Teleporter.

There is also:

This mech is only played in this variation, if one wishes to run a soft energy counter (for some weird reason), one can change the torso to an LPV.

 

This mech is disputed, but generally accepted to be viable at rank 1:

Changing one Quad Core Booster for an Overload Preventor will allow you to put a Superb Charge Engine.

 

Here we have Heat Double Shotgun, the least common of all the Double Shotguns:

 

The energy meta is much smaller:

Spoiler

This mech is an old one, the energy hugger sees much less use, but Void Drifter gets rank 1, and top 10 with it consistently:

 

Double Valiant Sniper, strong especially against huggers and energy dependant physical mechs:

@Pavke, the reason it is not useable with 588 energy capacity and 408 regeneration is as follows (I have also tested those modules, and they do not work): If fighting another energy mech: your weapons require, a minimum of 62+50 energy each turn, meaning that to be able to fire both your valiants and your drone, you need 112 energy, making your viable capacity only 476, which is very easy to drain, furthermore, even if drained, your opponent only has to drain 408-111=277 energy to stop your valiants and drone from firing, or to have you end up with less energy than you ended the previous turn with, very few weapon combos do not drain 276 energy, which is why a minimum of 700 capacity is needed, to allow the deficit between your regeneration, and the amount of energy you use to withstand more than 1/2 turns. Furthermore, the low heat cap means that you will not be able to combo 2 energy weapons together, which is what is needed to ensure the drainage of your opponent. Which is why nobody plays 588-408 double valiant.

 

Lastly, there is energy double shotgun, a very strong mech, also specialised against huggers.

 

Last but not least, the physical meta:

Spoiler

Energy free physical:

Spoiler

There are two options:

The first version is less used, but both remain decently viable.

 

Then there is Double Spartan Carnage:

Spoiler

Both versions are viable, however, it is more often seen as a counter than as a rounded mech.

And finally, Physical Double Shotgun:

I am not 100% certain of the utilities in this mech.

 

This is my view of the meta, from my extended experiences in rank 1.

[Deimos]

8 minutes ago, Pavke said:

One submitted with 2x DAA is literally the best version of it. People use heat legs on most of the mechs to increase heat resistance. Also, I don't see any problem with teleport? Whats the problem with it lol

Phys resistance is the biggest issue, also it's not about resistance but about the ability to fight huggers. That's not really doable when your heat legs will be doing 10 damage against their full 140 resist.

There's no problem with the teleport other than it being dead weight, it's just useless on that build especially since it's en-free. Dropping it in favor of phys legs is the right thing to do.

14 minutes ago, Pavke said:

Why would you even want more cap on double valiant mech? They are cheap to use plus the mech has over 400 regen. Even if the opponent uses OEMP first turn, you can still fire those valiants.

OEMP + drone shot and you're drained. That 400 regen won't be enough to save you with that low of a cap, especially on a build where literally everything is energy reliant.

21 minutes ago, Pavke said:

Teleport is literally a must in this kind of build. It can happen that you are stuck in a corner where you can only use piercing fox, of course you would want to get away lol. It's also good for teleport hammer combo.

If you're stuck in a corner you use the hammer, the only range where you can't use it would be 4 and that's already valiant range. It's literally only good for one specific situation and that is being stuck in a corner fighting a heat mech that happened to overheat you at that very moment. I'd rather stake it on higher energy that gives you actual chance against other drainers.

[Frero]

I doubt anyone will even read my post to its full extent, let alone that it will be implemented

1 minute ago, Deimos said:

Phys resistance is the biggest issue, also it's not about resistance but about the ability to fight huggers. That's not really doable when your heat legs will be doing 10 damage against their full 140 resist.

There's no problem with the teleport other than it being dead weight, it's just useless on that build especially since it's en-free. Dropping it in favor of phys legs is the right thing to do.

OEMP + drone shot and you're drained. That 400 regen won't be enough to save you with that low of a cap, especially on a build where literally everything is energy reliant.

If you're stuck in a corner you use the hammer, the only range where you can't use it would be 4 and that's already valiant range. It's literally only good for one specific situation and that is being stuck in a corner fighting a heat mech that happened to overheat you at that very moment. I'd rather stake it on higher energy that gives you actual chance against other drainers.

You need tele on double Valiant to abuse their hook, otherwise, you can never get them out of a corner, tried and tested.