Spartan Carnage vs Frantic Brute, Scientific: 40 tests in WU

[SawzAll]

I would like to start off by thanks Vassago from the discord.  He ran 40 tests on a dual frantic brute versus a dual spartan carnage mech and came up with the results.

SHORT STORY: Dual Spartan Carnage wins 29 out of 40 matches in WU (72% roughly) against Dual Frantic Brute.

LONG STORY: In WU, two identical mechs were created, each with either dual Frantic or dual Spartan.  In these 40 matches, Vassago made sure they both started out with two shots by moving the mechs around and/or shutting down.  Below are the configurations he used. 

ANALYSIS:

     First, this probably means that my constant complaint about Frantic Brute not being weaker than Spartan Carnage may be wrong.  Maybe Spartan Carnage is actually premium.  However,

     Second, this means it may be the effects of RNG + additional shots.  Frantic Brute's average damage is 360 versus Spartan Carnage's 323 (without arena buffs).  But it also may reflect the fact that the amount of variance in Frantic (310 range of damage at divine) is inferior to Spartan Carnage's 170 damage range.  Meaning RNG has less of a powerful effect on Spartan Carnage's damage output, but a much stronger effect on Frantic Brute's damage output.

     Third, however, if I might theorize, if people are hacking SM using tools intended to increase the damage output by injecting higher random numbers into the game artificially, that Frantic Brute is the preferred weapon of the hacker, as you stand to gain more by injecting random number hacks with Frantic.  I'm not suggesting that people hack, or saying that this is possible, just that my unscientific opinion is that your hackers are more likely to be wielding dual frantics, if they're performing RNG hacks.

     Finally, because this is a test in WU, i.e. an artificial sandbox, it's not possible to assume fights like this would go the same way in SuperMechs.  But it's about as close as we're going to get without literally building two identical divine mechs in SM and then fighting them with two accounts.  (But if you're interested in doing that, please contact me.)

CONCLUSION:

     I'd like to thank Vassago for the raw output of his tests.  I've been really busy with school, and he helped me quite a bit.

     If you'd like to help me test various things in WU, contact me please.

Edited May 1, 2021 by SawzAll (see edit history)

[Dark conon mech]

1 hour ago, SawzAll said:

I would like to start off by thanks Vassago from the discord.  He ran 40 tests on a dual frantic brute versus a dual spartan carnage mech and came up with the results.

SHORT STORY: Dual Spartan Carnage wins 29 out of 40 matches in WU (72% roughly) against Dual Frantic Brute.

LONG STORY: In WU, two identical mechs were created, each with either dual Frantic or dual Spartan.  In these 40 matches, Vassago made sure they both started out with two shots by moving the mechs around and/or shutting down.  Below are the configurations he used. 

ANALYSIS:

     First, this probably means that my constant complaint about Frantic Brute not being weaker than Spartan Carnage may be wrong.  Maybe Spartan Carnage is actually premium.  However,

     Second, this means it may be the effects of RNG + additional shots.  Frantic Brute's average damage is 360 versus Spartan Carnage's 323 (without arena buffs).  But it also may reflect the fact that the amount of variance in Frantic (310 range of damage at divine) is inferior to Spartan Carnage's 170 damage range.  Meaning RNG has less of a powerful effect on Spartan Carnage's damage output, but a much stronger effect on Frantic Brute's damage output.

     Third, however, if I might theorize, if people are hacking SM using tools intended to increase the damage output by injecting higher random numbers into the game artificially, that Frantic Brute is the preferred weapon of the hacker, as you stand to gain more by injecting random number hacks with Frantic.  I'm not suggesting that people hack, or saying that this is possible, just that my unscientific opinion is that your hackers are more likely to be wielding dual frantics, if they're performing RNG hacks.

     Finally, because this is a test in WU, i.e. an artificial sandbox, it's not possible to assume fights like this would go the same way in SuperMechs.  But it's about as close as we're going to get without literally building two identical divine mechs in SM and then fighting them with two accounts.  (But if you're interested in doing that, please contact me.)

CONCLUSION:

     I'd like to thank Vassago for the raw output of his tests.  I've been really busy with school, and he helped me quite a bit.

     If you'd like to help me test various things in WU, contact me please.

:)))

[Tirreggregars]

Interesting,

In spartan's favour I would put the 15 resistance drain, the 3 uses, the better heat/eng cost overall, and additionally the more restricted damage range.

In frantic's I'd put the slightly lesser energy cost (you never know when that 1 energy will be a game changer). As well as the higher average damage.

It makes no sense to me that frantic would lose if they both only have 2 shots, considering it has higher average damage.

[Xynt]

18 hours ago, SawzAll said:

If you'd like to help me test various things in WU, contact me please.

Sure, count me in.

[W.H.I.T.E.O.U.T]

4 hours ago, Tirreggregars said:

It makes no sense to me that frantic would lose if they both only have 2 shots, considering it has higher average damage.

In order for Brute build to kill the Spartan build, it would have to hit high with all 4 shots or else the Spartan build would survive with 100-600 HP.

As for the Spartan build, its 3 shots came into clutch more frequent than expected since the "no side weapons/drone/utilities" thing meant that the Brute had no other way to deal damage outside of stomp, so Brute would end up chasing after Spartan once it ran out of shots. That usually resulted in the Brute build getting finished off with a stomp or a Spartan shot.

[SawzAll]

To those who can't understand how Spartan wins over Frantic, the explanation is RNG.

Depending on RNG is like gambling (if gambling wasn't a parasite on society).  You have about the same odds to roll high as low.  If RNG is truly random (over time it is) then your odds of low and high shots are equal.

Which is why dual frantic builds depend on hitting high.  If you don't, you're just done.

Which is why the less random a weapon is, the more consistent results you get.

[Tirreggregars]

1 hour ago, W.H.I.T.E.O.U.T said:

In order for Brute build to kill the Spartan build, it would have to hit high with all 4 shots or else the Spartan build would survive with 100-600 HP.

As for the Spartan build, its 3 shots came into clutch more frequent than expected since the "no side weapons/drone/utilities" thing meant that the Brute had no other way to deal damage outside of stomp, so Brute would end up chasing after Spartan once it ran out of shots. That usually resulted in the Brute build getting finished off with a stomp or a Spartan shot.

I believe sawz said they both only have 2 shots.

2 minutes ago, SawzAll said:

To those who can't understand how Spartan wins over Frantic, the explanation is RNG.

Depending on RNG is like gambling (if gambling wasn't a parasite on society).  You have about the same odds to roll high as low.  If RNG is truly random (over time it is) then your odds of low and high shots are equal.

Which is why dual frantic builds depend on hitting high.  If you don't, you're just done.

Which is why the less random a weapon is, the more consistent results you get.

Yes, however the more you test it, the more the damage resembles that of the weapons having hit average every time. And since brute has higher average, shouldn't brute win?