DefinitelyNotTrophy

once again my disc is Tro#3452 @Bluz
replay code: 78F18

replay code: 4B614

replay code: 4B614

replay code: 4B614

me vs. @CYBERHUNTER
replay code: 38E5
 

@CYBERHUNTER my disc is Tro#3452

i dont agree with some of these points but the game does need a refresher

i dont agree with some of these points but the game does need a refresher

i dont agree with some of these points but the game does need a refresher

i dont agree with some of these points but the game does need a refresher

i dont agree with some of these points but the game does need a refresher

i dont agree with some of these points but the game does need a refresher

this is a trivial response to deflect the real issues at hand. the "un-balance" (in the words of a few HTKs) of the "newest" additions to the game.
this is also a deliberate attempt to deflect the same issues stated above. yes people technically still play all the elements, but few have the inventory for that kind of versatility.
oh, they do???!! weird, since all these "aspects" aren't. go figure (you probably already know).
i think it's plain to see which items aren't balanced at all, even without having to go through thousands and thousands of simulations. it's there in the numbers.
gato released their first balance changes weeks/months after taking over, and now that it's been over a year since the obvious "un-balance", this is the excuse you put for the devs? boy i wish you the best holding out your hope. 
again, putting words into my mouth. you're not going anywhere trying to run this narrative by me. like really, nowhere was this idea of "disliking ushering in the new gen" mentioned.
also untrue. wow, its like people don't have alts in this game.
i've never asked for new items? where do you keep getting all these assumptions?
a naive view of the drops, but ok.
clearly someone hasn't seen my thoughts on the ts forum.
but to address whatever this is, just because others get meta items, doesnt mean the item is balanced. your framing of this is just a blatant attempt of trying to discredit my arguments.
i've seen the power of the fortresses/dual mods. it feels dirty to me using it / getting beaten knowing the opponent carries them. call it "whining", idc. alex said he's gonna release e-m variants of the dual mods. yeah sure buddy.
hopefully he will keep stringing you along, like cattle to the slaughter, before pulling the plug (and plugging it in again)

what is the true state of the game then, if not stale metas and complacent devs? do you know why companies release balance changes? i'll let you put 2 and 2 together
this is a reach at best, and definitely the worst assumption you could make from what i've said. also, see above response for your answer.
i stopped pushing for r2/1 a long time ago, but this is tangential to the point. just because i only push to rank 3, doesn't mean i can't tell whats really goin on.
again, tangential. this is just you arguing with yourself so i dont even know what youre on about here

id give it a year until the next update, or rereloaded
no matter how many times the white knights in the discord tell us the game is not dying ("oh were just spreading out the player base for more efficient servers", "the population charts suggest that the playerbase counts have stayed quite the same for the past year", yadda yadda yadda) i can always tell by the top ranks leaderboards for looking at the true state of the game.

what is the true state of the game then, if not stale metas and complacent devs? do you know why companies release balance changes? i'll let you put 2 and 2 together
this is a reach at best, and definitely the worst assumption you could make from what i've said. also, see above response for your answer.
i stopped pushing for r2/1 a long time ago, but this is tangential to the point. just because i only push to rank 3, doesn't mean i can't tell whats really goin on.
again, tangential. this is just you arguing with yourself so i dont even know what youre on about here

this is a trivial response to deflect the real issues at hand. the "un-balance" (in the words of a few HTKs) of the "newest" additions to the game.
this is also a deliberate attempt to deflect the same issues stated above. yes people technically still play all the elements, but few have the inventory for that kind of versatility.
oh, they do???!! weird, since all these "aspects" aren't. go figure (you probably already know).
i think it's plain to see which items aren't balanced at all, even without having to go through thousands and thousands of simulations. it's there in the numbers.
gato released their first balance changes weeks/months after taking over, and now that it's been over a year since the obvious "un-balance", this is the excuse you put for the devs? boy i wish you the best holding out your hope. 
again, putting words into my mouth. you're not going anywhere trying to run this narrative by me. like really, nowhere was this idea of "disliking ushering in the new gen" mentioned.
also untrue. wow, its like people don't have alts in this game.
i've never asked for new items? where do you keep getting all these assumptions?
a naive view of the drops, but ok.
clearly someone hasn't seen my thoughts on the ts forum.
but to address whatever this is, just because others get meta items, doesnt mean the item is balanced. your framing of this is just a blatant attempt of trying to discredit my arguments.
i've seen the power of the fortresses/dual mods. it feels dirty to me using it / getting beaten knowing the opponent carries them. call it "whining", idc. alex said he's gonna release e-m variants of the dual mods. yeah sure buddy.
hopefully he will keep stringing you along, like cattle to the slaughter, before pulling the plug (and plugging it in again)

and he questioned: "why is this story still going?". a voice came from a distance...

van helsing? idk i dont pay attention to 119882722717822 mechs

when i log in to supermechs 
i look for noobs to wreck
but all i find is dual mod abusers
and triple resistance users
 
 

when i log in to supermechs 
i look for noobs to wreck
but all i find is dual mod abusers
and triple resistance users
 
 

when i log in to supermechs 
i look for noobs to wreck
but all i find is dual mod abusers
and triple resistance users
 
 

A Little Intro
"Tell me something I don't know..." -the playerbase, probably
Well, you'll be disappointed for the first few paragraphs if you're expecting some complex data analysis, because I'm gonna state the obvious for the 9567th time... so let's begin...
 
For the past year or so, dual modules have been a staple in top rank builds. You may not see them directly, but you know your opponent has some equipped. One such dual module is the Quad Core Booster.
Ever faced an opponent with 350+ cooling AND 400+ regen at the same time, while having moderate to high secondary stat caps (550-900 energy cap/550-900 heat cap)? Chances are that player has a QCB (or two, or three!) equipped in their module slots. Do you resign on the spot when you know you already lost because of these secondary stats?
It wasn't always like this. In fact, it never should've come to this, but here we are.
The Probably Distant Past
Let's start the timeline around the release of the Backfire mechanic. People were skeptical of the mechanic's viability in the top ranks. They would ask, "Why sacrifice a lot of HP for a little increase in damage output?" This was certainly the case for the Broken Devourer, Drunk Lightning, and Sacrifice Cannon. Sure, they were lightweight but the meta weapons at the time were equally as efficient without the HP reduction. For a few months, backfire weapons remained largely unused. That was until... the dual mods were released.
The Recent Past
The first dual impactful dual module was the Overload Preventor. At a lightweight 25 kilograms, it outclassed its epic-divine counterpart, offering 1.64 energy regen/cooldown per kilogram by itself. That may not seem like much, but when you have 5 extra kilograms AND an extra space in your module slots (when comparing the OP to its epic-divine counterparts), there is an intrinsic value hidden between its numerical stats. An owner of two or more of these Overload Preventors can theoretically place another epic-divine module for free as opposed to sticking with the old epic-divine modules (thus living up to its abbreviation). "Okay, so my opponent gets a free 89/42 or 0/63. Big whoop. They will have lower secondary stat caps if they place 3 of those Overload Preventors, so I can still take them head on!"
Well, that's the neat part. You don't.
The More Recent Past
Here's where our real culprit comes in, the Quad Core Booster (QCB). At only 40 kilograms, it has an edge up on its epic-divine energy and heat module counterparts. Featuring +12/+5 energy/regen and +2/+5 heat/cooldown by stat comparison alone, it is easily noticeable how the synergy with two or three of these can measure up. If you sport 2 of these bad boys, that's 80 kilograms with secondary stats of +208/+98 energy/regen +184/+98 heat/cooldown. But, let's not forget its epic-divine equivalent, a measly +184/+88 energy/regen (same for heat/cooldown) for a combined weight of 100 kilograms. Essentially, you get 20 kilograms for free AND you get better stats AND most importantly, you have 2 extra module slots, and that's only with TWO QCBs. Three QCBs and you've theoretically freed up spare weight for a whole epic-divine module (or two), or better yet, an Overload Preventor!
The Present
Now we reach present day. Top ranks are filled with dual modules, and it's quite obvious to tell for anyone that uses a mech primarily focusing on secondary stat "damage". I did not want to bring up the other major module that has impacted basically every rank, since it is mostly irrelevant to the topics I will discuss later.
There are sales that feature the QCB and can be bought with tokens, though they are quite rare and expensive, but rightly so since they literally give the user a leg up on secondary stat sustainability.
Dead in the Water
So, let's talk about some dead archetypes in the top ranks. There are a few exceptions to the following, but unless you have swaths of legendary-divine items to construct these, these archetypes are basically dead because of dual modules (which includes our flexing friend, the QCB):
Drainers - mechs that focus on depleting the opponent's energy using energy weapons that deal a lot of energy damage (do not confuse it with electric damage). Traditional energy drainer weapons like Malice Beam, Hysteria, Ash Creator, Valiant Sniper (which is not dead), and Unstable Power Cell have a hard time draining opponents that have 350+ regen (duh), especially while worrying about their own secondary stats or HP. More extreme drain weapons like the EMP and its backfire version are really a tale of two cities. EMP rarely sees play in the top ranks due to its "low" drain (400ish when divined) and unfavorable range. Its backfire version, the OEMP, sees a lot of play due to its high drain (almost 500 when divined) and favorable range. OEMP synergizes well with the Malice Beam and Valiant Sniper to deliver 600+ energy damage to the opponent, which is adequate enough to continuously drain many top rank builds in subsequent turns. Any drainer mech without an OEMP/VS nor VS/VS combo is easily lost against mechs with QCBs. Boilers - mechs that focus on providing high heat damage to the opponent. Traditional boiler weapons like the Corrupt Light, Savagery, and Crimson Rapture see no play at the top ranks (well, they never did before dual mod introductions, but now are 60 feet under figuratively). Sorrow, a legendary-divine weapon, has seen sharply decreased play after the introduction of dual mods and especially after the QCB release. The only remaining item keeping this archetype barely functioning is Swoop, but even then, that drone isn't used for pure boilers. Vandal Rage sees no play in the top ranks anymore. Its viability is outclassed by QCBs and the like. Even using 2 Vandal Rages can mean your opponent still has 300 cooling, which is more than enough to keep said opponent out of perpetual shutdown. Heat Bombs are the last remaining boiler weapons that still see some play in the top ranks (but none at all at the very top), but are easily outclassed by the QCB and OP. Really, any element-specific (energy/heat damage) mech suffers horribly at the hand of the QCB. EMP mechs are topping out at rank 4 (previously topping out at rank 2 or 1 based on arena mode), while Sorrow builds top out around rank 3 (previously rank 1 regardless of arena mode).
The Only Way to Survive
Since secondary-stat-focused mechs are generally no longer part of the meta, damage-focused builds are the main archetype that remains. This is because the QCB and the OP are less of a direct influence on increasing HP, the stat affected by raw damage and backfire.
The only problem is that there is less strategy involved with dueling using just damage-focused builds. Players no longer have to think about their energy being drained/heat being topped by opponent combos, and now only have to worry about the big red numbers and the range.
Counter-Counters
Some Counters are a special type of archetype that are risky, meaning that facing the wrong mech that focuses on the secondary stat you're vulnerable against is an automatic loss for you, and otherwise, a win. You may have seen physical mechs that have 249 energy and 600+ heat while sporting energy-reliant weapons. That is one common example. Another is an energy mech that counters heat. There are quite a few of these archetypes around. They are more easily spotted by inspecting their secondary stats and resistances. The main reason these exist is because they are almost guaranteed a win against mechs that are more rounded to expect any type of opponent.
With the introduction of the QCB, rounded mechs can now synergize with other dual modules and free up space for Platings and Resistance Modules. This raises the overall power ceiling for rounded mechs by a large margin, which in turn decreases the win rate for risky counters.
You might ask, "Okay but risky counters can also get these dual modules for their mechs, right? So how exactly does it decrease their win rate if rounded mechs with QCBs face them?" Well, why do people run risky counters? The main answer is that they do not have enough items to justify using a fully dual-modded rounded mech. Also, it is disingenuous to use a dual module (like the QCB) on an element-specific counter mech.
Then, you might say, "Well, good riddance. Counters are cancerous anyways and show no real skill." Users that have to build counters are generally gated by lack of items, which also gates their ability to showcase their actual skill. The fact that rounded mechs with QCBs and OPs can defeat a full-on counter to that rounded mech is a testament that QCBs and OPs are ridiculously overpowered.
Synergy Synergy Synergy...
So I've talked about this whole synergy thing for a while now, but I've kept neglecting major points unrelated to module synergy. This section talks about what everyone finds out on their own once there's spare weight from when switching over from epic-divine modules to QCBs on a mech...
Synergy with resistance drainer weapons - earlier, I mentioned that using a QCB instead of two epic-divine [engine] modules grant the user 10 extra spare weight. Well, do you know what also is around 10 spare kilograms? Those legendary-divine backfire resistance drainer weapons. These 8-kilogram weapons are essential to being a top ranker, as everyone and their dogs will sport 100+ resistance in every damage type during a match. Note that if you use two or three QCBs, you can even substitute in another drainer that doesn't have to be legendary-divine! Synergy with scopes - If you have multiple QCBs, you have spare weight for a Scope-8 weapon (Falcon, Flaming Scope, Lightning Scope) or even a more viable Scope-7 (Cockpit Piercer, Cockpit Electrocuter, Cockpit Burner) weapon. Synergy with torsos - having multiple QCBs also allows you to equip heavier meta torsos. For example, many use the Nightmare torso for its recent all-around buff while also keeping itself lightweight (315 kilograms). However, if you currently have epic-divine modules and substitute them in for QCBs/OPs, you can now equip Platinum Vests (346 kilograms and they offer greater base resistance values) while keeping your module setup! Possible Ways to Deal with the QCB
Nerf - nerf its weight (by increasing it) or nerf its secondary stat bonuses to a more equalized version of the epic-divine engine modules, albeit the QCB still needs to be better than the Energy Engine and Heat Engine combined. Buff - buff the epic-divine modules to lessen the power advantage of the QCB. Introduce - introduce inferior copies of the QCB as rare-divine or epic-divine rarities. Delete - not gonna happen, but it's still a possibility. Just saying. So what's next?
Alexander gave some lip service on Discord mentioning the inclusion of epic-divine versions of the OP and QCB (instead of doing nerfs), but those inclusions have yet to be seen.
For now, we will have to wait. Hopefully not forever.
Author's Note
I don't have any data to back any of these claims. It really is all common sense and my own personal observations. I can't be bothered with running 5000 matches to prove anything I typed here, so take all of this with a grain of salt. #cringe
This post can also be outdated in the event that one of the above ways that the QCB can be dealt with happens. Or, other things like buffing literally every other weapon to bring back viability to drainer/boiler (energy/heat) mechs.
Note that this isn't a rant topic. I've only stated my opinion but I'm not outright just taking the piss out on the QCB or any dual mod for that matter.
Lastly, it's literally 6 in the morning, so there may have been points I screwed up or things I forgot to cover. Just let me know. Don't even know why I created this topic in the first place... maybe I was just bored.
 
 

texans (sad) and chargers (the san diego kind, not the los angeles kind)

A Little Intro
"Tell me something I don't know..." -the playerbase, probably
Well, you'll be disappointed for the first few paragraphs if you're expecting some complex data analysis, because I'm gonna state the obvious for the 9567th time... so let's begin...
 
For the past year or so, dual modules have been a staple in top rank builds. You may not see them directly, but you know your opponent has some equipped. One such dual module is the Quad Core Booster.
Ever faced an opponent with 350+ cooling AND 400+ regen at the same time, while having moderate to high secondary stat caps (550-900 energy cap/550-900 heat cap)? Chances are that player has a QCB (or two, or three!) equipped in their module slots. Do you resign on the spot when you know you already lost because of these secondary stats?
It wasn't always like this. In fact, it never should've come to this, but here we are.
The Probably Distant Past
Let's start the timeline around the release of the Backfire mechanic. People were skeptical of the mechanic's viability in the top ranks. They would ask, "Why sacrifice a lot of HP for a little increase in damage output?" This was certainly the case for the Broken Devourer, Drunk Lightning, and Sacrifice Cannon. Sure, they were lightweight but the meta weapons at the time were equally as efficient without the HP reduction. For a few months, backfire weapons remained largely unused. That was until... the dual mods were released.
The Recent Past
The first dual impactful dual module was the Overload Preventor. At a lightweight 25 kilograms, it outclassed its epic-divine counterpart, offering 1.64 energy regen/cooldown per kilogram by itself. That may not seem like much, but when you have 5 extra kilograms AND an extra space in your module slots (when comparing the OP to its epic-divine counterparts), there is an intrinsic value hidden between its numerical stats. An owner of two or more of these Overload Preventors can theoretically place another epic-divine module for free as opposed to sticking with the old epic-divine modules (thus living up to its abbreviation). "Okay, so my opponent gets a free 89/42 or 0/63. Big whoop. They will have lower secondary stat caps if they place 3 of those Overload Preventors, so I can still take them head on!"
Well, that's the neat part. You don't.
The More Recent Past
Here's where our real culprit comes in, the Quad Core Booster (QCB). At only 40 kilograms, it has an edge up on its epic-divine energy and heat module counterparts. Featuring +12/+5 energy/regen and +2/+5 heat/cooldown by stat comparison alone, it is easily noticeable how the synergy with two or three of these can measure up. If you sport 2 of these bad boys, that's 80 kilograms with secondary stats of +208/+98 energy/regen +184/+98 heat/cooldown. But, let's not forget its epic-divine equivalent, a measly +184/+88 energy/regen (same for heat/cooldown) for a combined weight of 100 kilograms. Essentially, you get 20 kilograms for free AND you get better stats AND most importantly, you have 2 extra module slots, and that's only with TWO QCBs. Three QCBs and you've theoretically freed up spare weight for a whole epic-divine module (or two), or better yet, an Overload Preventor!
The Present
Now we reach present day. Top ranks are filled with dual modules, and it's quite obvious to tell for anyone that uses a mech primarily focusing on secondary stat "damage". I did not want to bring up the other major module that has impacted basically every rank, since it is mostly irrelevant to the topics I will discuss later.
There are sales that feature the QCB and can be bought with tokens, though they are quite rare and expensive, but rightly so since they literally give the user a leg up on secondary stat sustainability.
Dead in the Water
So, let's talk about some dead archetypes in the top ranks. There are a few exceptions to the following, but unless you have swaths of legendary-divine items to construct these, these archetypes are basically dead because of dual modules (which includes our flexing friend, the QCB):
Drainers - mechs that focus on depleting the opponent's energy using energy weapons that deal a lot of energy damage (do not confuse it with electric damage). Traditional energy drainer weapons like Malice Beam, Hysteria, Ash Creator, Valiant Sniper (which is not dead), and Unstable Power Cell have a hard time draining opponents that have 350+ regen (duh), especially while worrying about their own secondary stats or HP. More extreme drain weapons like the EMP and its backfire version are really a tale of two cities. EMP rarely sees play in the top ranks due to its "low" drain (400ish when divined) and unfavorable range. Its backfire version, the OEMP, sees a lot of play due to its high drain (almost 500 when divined) and favorable range. OEMP synergizes well with the Malice Beam and Valiant Sniper to deliver 600+ energy damage to the opponent, which is adequate enough to continuously drain many top rank builds in subsequent turns. Any drainer mech without an OEMP/VS nor VS/VS combo is easily lost against mechs with QCBs. Boilers - mechs that focus on providing high heat damage to the opponent. Traditional boiler weapons like the Corrupt Light, Savagery, and Crimson Rapture see no play at the top ranks (well, they never did before dual mod introductions, but now are 60 feet under figuratively). Sorrow, a legendary-divine weapon, has seen sharply decreased play after the introduction of dual mods and especially after the QCB release. The only remaining item keeping this archetype barely functioning is Swoop, but even then, that drone isn't used for pure boilers. Vandal Rage sees no play in the top ranks anymore. Its viability is outclassed by QCBs and the like. Even using 2 Vandal Rages can mean your opponent still has 300 cooling, which is more than enough to keep said opponent out of perpetual shutdown. Heat Bombs are the last remaining boiler weapons that still see some play in the top ranks (but none at all at the very top), but are easily outclassed by the QCB and OP. Really, any element-specific (energy/heat damage) mech suffers horribly at the hand of the QCB. EMP mechs are topping out at rank 4 (previously topping out at rank 2 or 1 based on arena mode), while Sorrow builds top out around rank 3 (previously rank 1 regardless of arena mode).
The Only Way to Survive
Since secondary-stat-focused mechs are generally no longer part of the meta, damage-focused builds are the main archetype that remains. This is because the QCB and the OP are less of a direct influence on increasing HP, the stat affected by raw damage and backfire.
The only problem is that there is less strategy involved with dueling using just damage-focused builds. Players no longer have to think about their energy being drained/heat being topped by opponent combos, and now only have to worry about the big red numbers and the range.
Counter-Counters
Some Counters are a special type of archetype that are risky, meaning that facing the wrong mech that focuses on the secondary stat you're vulnerable against is an automatic loss for you, and otherwise, a win. You may have seen physical mechs that have 249 energy and 600+ heat while sporting energy-reliant weapons. That is one common example. Another is an energy mech that counters heat. There are quite a few of these archetypes around. They are more easily spotted by inspecting their secondary stats and resistances. The main reason these exist is because they are almost guaranteed a win against mechs that are more rounded to expect any type of opponent.
With the introduction of the QCB, rounded mechs can now synergize with other dual modules and free up space for Platings and Resistance Modules. This raises the overall power ceiling for rounded mechs by a large margin, which in turn decreases the win rate for risky counters.
You might ask, "Okay but risky counters can also get these dual modules for their mechs, right? So how exactly does it decrease their win rate if rounded mechs with QCBs face them?" Well, why do people run risky counters? The main answer is that they do not have enough items to justify using a fully dual-modded rounded mech. Also, it is disingenuous to use a dual module (like the QCB) on an element-specific counter mech.
Then, you might say, "Well, good riddance. Counters are cancerous anyways and show no real skill." Users that have to build counters are generally gated by lack of items, which also gates their ability to showcase their actual skill. The fact that rounded mechs with QCBs and OPs can defeat a full-on counter to that rounded mech is a testament that QCBs and OPs are ridiculously overpowered.
Synergy Synergy Synergy...
So I've talked about this whole synergy thing for a while now, but I've kept neglecting major points unrelated to module synergy. This section talks about what everyone finds out on their own once there's spare weight from when switching over from epic-divine modules to QCBs on a mech...
Synergy with resistance drainer weapons - earlier, I mentioned that using a QCB instead of two epic-divine [engine] modules grant the user 10 extra spare weight. Well, do you know what also is around 10 spare kilograms? Those legendary-divine backfire resistance drainer weapons. These 8-kilogram weapons are essential to being a top ranker, as everyone and their dogs will sport 100+ resistance in every damage type during a match. Note that if you use two or three QCBs, you can even substitute in another drainer that doesn't have to be legendary-divine! Synergy with scopes - If you have multiple QCBs, you have spare weight for a Scope-8 weapon (Falcon, Flaming Scope, Lightning Scope) or even a more viable Scope-7 (Cockpit Piercer, Cockpit Electrocuter, Cockpit Burner) weapon. Synergy with torsos - having multiple QCBs also allows you to equip heavier meta torsos. For example, many use the Nightmare torso for its recent all-around buff while also keeping itself lightweight (315 kilograms). However, if you currently have epic-divine modules and substitute them in for QCBs/OPs, you can now equip Platinum Vests (346 kilograms and they offer greater base resistance values) while keeping your module setup! Possible Ways to Deal with the QCB
Nerf - nerf its weight (by increasing it) or nerf its secondary stat bonuses to a more equalized version of the epic-divine engine modules, albeit the QCB still needs to be better than the Energy Engine and Heat Engine combined. Buff - buff the epic-divine modules to lessen the power advantage of the QCB. Introduce - introduce inferior copies of the QCB as rare-divine or epic-divine rarities. Delete - not gonna happen, but it's still a possibility. Just saying. So what's next?
Alexander gave some lip service on Discord mentioning the inclusion of epic-divine versions of the OP and QCB (instead of doing nerfs), but those inclusions have yet to be seen.
For now, we will have to wait. Hopefully not forever.
Author's Note
I don't have any data to back any of these claims. It really is all common sense and my own personal observations. I can't be bothered with running 5000 matches to prove anything I typed here, so take all of this with a grain of salt. #cringe
This post can also be outdated in the event that one of the above ways that the QCB can be dealt with happens. Or, other things like buffing literally every other weapon to bring back viability to drainer/boiler (energy/heat) mechs.
Note that this isn't a rant topic. I've only stated my opinion but I'm not outright just taking the piss out on the QCB or any dual mod for that matter.
Lastly, it's literally 6 in the morning, so there may have been points I screwed up or things I forgot to cover. Just let me know. Don't even know why I created this topic in the first place... maybe I was just bored.