Realistic Way To Fix Energy (Suggestion)

[SawzAll]

I am a new player, since September 1 this year, and I'm only arena rank 11.  I am P2W (but other than birthday and Christmas money, just the $5/month subscription).  So please be gracious and listen to my idea.  I'm not super experienced, but I think I have an idea that will help.  My background is mainly BattleTech and MechWarrior (not the same universe as SM but similar).

I used to work on the avionics systems of the F-117, CV-22, and F-16.  Things like radar, GPS, UHF, navigation computers, targeting computers, and fire control systems.  These aircraft have specialized computer systems in boxes inside of them that draw energy and create heat.  I know that SuperMechs isn't trying to be super-realistic, but I think one way to balance the game would be to require all items to draw energy, even if it's only 5 energy.  Even drones: their controller computer, mounted in the mech, probably draws at least 5 energy.

I can see weapons like Flaminator not making heat, if one sees the 110 energy drain as powering some of the on-board fans on the Flaminator.  There were avionics computers (rarely) in our aircraft that had self-contained fans and didn't need to be hooked up to the onboard Environmental Control System (basically HVAC heating and air conditioning for airplanes).  But everything required energy to run.   Also, on military aircraft, squibs, explosive charges, and rocket motors, are set off (initiated) by a high power electric current.  Firing weapons required energy.  Also, on military aircraft, the system that reloads the weapon is either hydraulic (larger guns like the M61A1) or a combination of electrical and recoil.

I know I'm new, but I figure that even if that means that energy-free becomes almost-energy-free (i.e. all weapons that were energy free now require 5 energy cost), it wouldn't completely nerf it because torsos have energy production, and dual modules are a thing.

Basically, the fundamental problem, as I see it, is that energy mechs were designed to drain an enemy's energy to beat them.  The fundamental problem, therefore, is that mainly weapons have been created that don't need energy, making energy basically irrelevant.  If you are doing your job (draining their energy) but it doesn't have any effect, fundamentally energy is made irrelevant.

So since I have ideas but not experience, can some of the seasoned experienced players comment and tell me if this would help fix energy meta?

Edited December 23, 2020 by SawzAll (see edit history)

[A Happy F4ce]

thread could be alternatively titled "How To Leave Heat Mechs Dead In The Water".

I'll explain this.

How energy and heat functions practically is a currency.

in the energy type, you are spending energy to reduce the enemy's bank of energy. The goal is not simply to leave them with no energy to spend on their damage outputs (in those which require it), but also once they go "bust" you will increase your Hitpoint damage by the drain (Im not sure if you know this already since you're new, I thought I'd explain that). High drain items don't actually produce a lot of electric damage, so if you fail to bankrupt the enemy of energy you won't actually do much hitpoint damage.

when energy encounters heat, most heats will be focusing on explosive damage not heat damage. This means they don't reserve much energy, so energy are instantly in a position to combine energy and electrical damage by turn 2. however, the trade-off is that for explosive oriented heats, there is no energy currency requirewd to keey firing.

this is the fundamental difference between energy vs physical, and energy vs heat. the mission of an energy against a physical is to drain them so they have no currency to use on physical weapons or their drones (though phys do have some weapons to use once drained). with heat, it is to exploit the combination of electric and energy damage to ahcieve a higher damage output than the heat can keep up with.

when a heat fights an energy, it has two ways to prevent the energy's higher damage output from overhwelming them

1) turn loss due to overheating, IE making the energy's "heat bank" go bust. one turn once an energy has drained your heat can mean 300-500 damage saved

2) higher HP (a larger Hitpoint bank) which is gained through being able to Ignore energy stats

if you were to make explosive damage based weaponry require even 5 energy, even 1 energy this whole system collapses for heat. you no longer have the ability to induce turn loss, because you cant fire. and if you dedicate more to energy modules you lose your HP bank. so then youre in the situation of the physical. Yet, when you come into contact against physicals you will be torn apart. the explosive based heat cannot survive without a large HP bank.

When a heat comes against a physical, unless you are a dedicated heat damage rather than explosive damage, it is extremely easy for a physical to have enough heat to maintain an equal or higher damage output. if you can't match the HP, you're dead in the water.

and for heats, your HP comes from plates. magma mechs can't be put on claws both because of weight and practical considerations. if they had to use energy modules, they're gone.

HOWEVER

I agree that physical mechs energy usage is far too low. the fact that a physical can viably ignore energy these days is a huge problem. they have the highest damage output of any type, because by nature they are always fusing their elemental and their natural damage output. while energy is divided between energy (elemental) and electric (natural) damage and must drain before these are combined. Heat is by nature divided between heat (elecmental) and explosive (natural) damage, and fucntions only when it can use its elemental to deny the opponent turns or by packing on enough explosive to overcome the divide. Physical is by nature united from turn one. it has no elemental damage, instead it has higher resistance drain and the highest base natural damage of any type. Nowadays, its is too easy for a physical to bank both enough heat and enough energy to efectively maintain constant fire without any fear of a shutdown, or a drain.

These 4k hp physicals are a testament to everything which went wrong.

the solution is not to require an energy cost for heat, but to impose it once again on physical.

Edited December 23, 2020 by Fidelio (see edit history)

[SawzAll]

Fidelio, I can see that to a point, but the fact that heat can ignore energy is just as much a problem as physical being able to ignore energy, at least in my opinion.  But I admit that I am biased: energy is my favorite.

[A Happy F4ce]

Perhaps at your level, but at rank 5 and above, energy and heat are an entire league behind physical. if we made all items require even a small amount of energy, Energy would overcome heat, and heat would be destroyed. but physical would continue to dominate. the problem lies with Physical items which require too little cost, costs which were reasonable before the arena stat buffs, and before the new OP modules, but are now outdated. so you're right when it comes to physicals, but in the case of heat, it would be an execution.

[SawzAll]

Just now, Fidelio said:

Perhaps at your level, but at rank 5 and above, energy and heat are an entire league behind physical. if we made all items require even a small amount of energy, Energy would overcome heat, and heat would be destroyed. but physical would continue to dominate. the problem lies with Physical items which require too little cost, costs which were reasonable before the arena stat buffs, and before the new OP modules, but are now outdated. so you're right when it comes to physicals, but in the case of heat, it would be an execution.

I can't say you're wrong because I'm only arena rank 11.  But I feel like this isn't correct because, again, the reason physical can ignore energy is dual modules and also the existence of energy-free weapons.  If one elemental type can totally ignore another, I feel like there's a fundamental problem.  Maybe a lot more would need to be changed about the game to fix energy meta, so I get it, and again, I'm not the ubermech.  I just feel like the existence of energy-free items is itself a problem.  If it's not super difficult to put at least 500 cap and 300 regen on a mech due to the existence of dual modules, i feel like one cannot say that making all weapons require energy would "break" heat.  Maybe heat would just have to adapt.

If this would break heat instead because they'd be taking up module space to have better energy rather than tons of plat plates, then I think that goes back to physical being OP, which is yet another problem that might need to be fixed separately.

[Liam.M.Lucas_2020]

From what i've seen, each element seems pretty balanced in rank 5 and above. Of course one of the acceptions is clevername but he's spent over 32k in this game so yeah, he's gonna be pretty damn op. But if we are talking about regular f2p mechs, each element is pretty even.