heller Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 (edited) now lets consider that we buffed the energy weapons and made it lighter some of you would say that this means are no longer useless. will no it still the same if we got the point of energy builds we would find that its about energy breaking but what about heat builds ? its about overheating now here is the main reason why heat will always beat energy (from top ranks presective) if energy mech made you out of energy it wont take a turn away from you. you still able to move,use spicals,use free energy weapons even you drone can attack if it doesnot use energy while with heat if you manged to overheat your enemy he will lose his turn and if you manged to make him shutdown HIS DRONE CANT EVEN ATTACK NO MATTER WHAT now lets consider that i somehow manged to get high energy cap and energy regenrate with high heat cap and high colodown with high hp (just consider this happend somehow) and i am running energy mech and i mange to energy break everyone in high ranks but i wont be in the top why ? because there is alot and i mean ALOT of free energy weapons that can counter energy builds while there is only few weapons that can counter heat builds now i know you would say "these weapons are premuim weapons only and require luck and alot of tokens" but i am talking from high rank (5-1) presective meaning that almost every player will have atleast 2 or 3 free energy preimum weapons and even the meta builds doesnot have energy variants cause as i mentioned before there is alot of weapons that can counter energy builds and even if we compared between the meta weapons and its energy variants we will find that the heat type has better stats (the axe in the hugger mechs does 50 heat cap while the energy type does 40) not to mention the drone in the hugger mech that does a FREAKING 110 HEAT and i dont really think there is a way to make energy meta again other than making a new weapons Edited December 19, 2021 by heller (see edit history) Benja07, White Star, Windigo Enjoyer and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avrora Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 Not really. You see it from current perspective of double mods/high res era, which had biggest impact on energy mechs. Don't forget that the energy block your weaponry AND deal additional dmg in 0 energy. If you look on pre double mods era energy mechs was kinda common in game, cmon there even was energy mainers who devastated arena so hard that even strongest heat players prefer avoid those battles and able take solo top 3. Also 2nd biggest impact on energy was rise of phys mechs, which got most advantage of double mods+ ton of strong items. 3rd impact for energy mechs was swoop buff which reckt whole arena in living nightmare of heat huggers. In all this periods energy mechs never really had huge buffs/advantages like other 2 types. Now problem in that phys is just over-buffed so hard that if you buff energy that gonna down heat mechs in abyss, there need complex balance/buff/rework thing for all 3 classes (not total, but crucial parts) Jahy Sama, Shoultz262 and OKI DOKI 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heller Posted December 19, 2021 Author Share Posted December 19, 2021 i agree before double mods was a thing energy was meta but now you cant get use of them cause you need high energy+high heat but with the cost of low hp (you cant have the three of them cause high energy is what make energy mechs what they are) not to mention how heavy energy items are which is additonal reason why you cant get any use of double mods and even the stats of heat are just better not to mention that we dont have some energy varaints of some weapons Benja07 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avrora Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 Just now, heller said: i agree before double mods was a thing energy was meta but now you cant get use of them cause you need high energy+high heat but with the cost of low hp (you cant have the three of them cause high energy is what make energy mechs what they are) not to mention how heavy energy items are which is additonal reason why you cant get any use of double mods and even the stats of heat are just better not to mention that we dont have some energy varaints of some weapons Every type must have its unique weapon or you just gonna have 3 same mechs just in different colors. About mods use and weight.. i can agree on weight that its to big for this type, but about mods its 50/50, again mech types dont must use things in SAME WAY, energy always had opportunity of glass cannon builds, minimal hp/max res and high caps with minimal reg/cool and you know? its works. Not so many players use it but its works, especially in 1vs1. So stop make from everything "double shotgun" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendall Passionate Polaris Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 AAAAAAAAAA OKI DOKI 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heller Posted December 19, 2021 Author Share Posted December 19, 2021 5 minutes ago, PaintedAshwithSnow said: Every type must have its unique weapon or you just gonna have 3 same mechs just in different colors. i mean we dont have a physical push drone that could help physical scope builds 8 minutes ago, PaintedAshwithSnow said: energy always had opportunity of glass cannon builds, minimal hp/max res and high caps with minimal reg/cool and you know? its works. Not so many players use it but its works, especially in 1vs1. So stop make from everything "double shotgun" high res is not a thing anymore after the new weapons that can easily drain the res (again i am talking from top ranks prespictive) while high cap it can work in 1vs1 but other than that its hard to tell cause you dont know what are you going to face in the arena 12 minutes ago, PaintedAshwithSnow said: about mods its 50/50 you cant get heavy parts and but a heavy mods with it i tried that before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avrora Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 1 minute ago, heller said: i mean we dont have a physical push drone that could help physical scope builds make it more broken? First turn scope not enough for you? 5 minutes ago, heller said: high res is not a thing anymore after the new weapons that can easily drain the res (again i am talking from top ranks prespictive) High res IS MINIMUM this days ESPECIALLY IN HIGH ranks, or you just gonna take 1 res drainer in face and die in 2 turns, res is what keep them away from it, even sometimes happens there situation like to push away from 1st turn res drainers to take more time before max dmg. 6 minutes ago, heller said: while high cap it can work in 1vs1 but other than that its hard to tell cause you dont know what are you going to face in the arena wrote it for example. But again its already more then 95% of "meta energy mechs" 7 minutes ago, heller said: you cant get heavy parts and but a heavy mods with it i tried that before of course you cant when energy items weight more then phys or EVEN heat items sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahy Sama Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 (edited) Damage based en works fine in arena,drain based absolutely sucks unless paired with upc or oemp,then again you run out of uses and the opponent will just regen almost 380+ en and finish you off easily, I've tried alot of ways to make drain based en work but it seems only ones with range gaps work 14 minutes ago, heller said: high res is not a thing anymore after the new weapons that can easily drain the res (again i am talking from top ranks prespictive) High res builds are pretty much everywhere in top ranks, heat res usually around 130,phys res ranging from 160 to 180, en usually 120 or none at all, sure, the new res drainers drain 60 res per shot, but they cost a pretty hefty amount of backfire, running without no res isn't a better option anyways 24 minutes ago, heller said: I mean we dont have a physical push drone that could help physical scope builds No ty, not when they can pull off 1.3k damage combos right off the bat just from a range 5 spawn Edited December 19, 2021 by Jahy Sama Minor spelling mistake (see edit history) OKI DOKI 1 Уσᥙɾട ㆜ɾᥙɬყ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benja07 Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 Use double energy res mods to dampen electrical damage that's what I do although this is an alternative so sometimes it doesn't work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahy Sama Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 Uh double res mods of the same type can't be equipped? 2 minutes ago, Theweobenji07 said: Use double energy res mods to dampen electrical damage that's what I do although this is an alternative so sometimes it doesn't work Уσᥙɾട ㆜ɾᥙɬყ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benja07 Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 I mean energy fortress can also be used for such builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heller Posted December 20, 2021 Author Share Posted December 20, 2021 17 hours ago, Jahy Sama said: High res builds are pretty much everywhere in top ranks, heat res usually around 130,phys res ranging from 160 to 180, en usually 120 or none at all, sure, the new res drainers drain 60 res per shot, but they cost a pretty hefty amount of backfire, running without no res isn't a better option anyways exactly everyone have high res making it seems useless (cause the damage are the same) but when you drain the res you deal more damage what i mean is res useless in high ranks cause every one have high res Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahy Sama Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 3 hours ago, heller said: exactly everyone have high res making it seems useless (cause the damage are the same) but when you drain the res you deal more damage what i mean is res useless in high ranks cause every one have high res Now you have me lost Kendall Passionate Polaris 1 Уσᥙɾട ㆜ɾᥙɬყ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monke King Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 I can’t be bothered to read the replies lol Kendall Passionate Polaris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendall Passionate Polaris Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 To think you actually exist here? HHHHH AAAH AHH AH AHAHA Hallo~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 On 12/19/2021 at 8:10 PM, heller said: now lets consider that we buffed the energy weapons and made it lighter some of you would say that this means are no longer useless. will no it still the same if we got the point of energy builds we would find that its about energy breaking but what about heat builds ? its about overheating now here is the main reason why heat will always beat energy (from top ranks presective) if energy mech made you out of energy it wont take a turn away from you. you still able to move,use spicals,use free energy weapons even you drone can attack if it doesnot use energy while with heat if you manged to overheat your enemy he will lose his turn and if you manged to make him shutdown HIS DRONE CANT EVEN ATTACK NO MATTER WHAT now lets consider that i somehow manged to get high energy cap and energy regenrate with high heat cap and high colodown with high hp (just consider this happend somehow) and i am running energy mech and i mange to energy break everyone in high ranks but i wont be in the top why ? because there is alot and i mean ALOT of free energy weapons that can counter energy builds while there is only few weapons that can counter heat builds now i know you would say "these weapons are premuim weapons only and require luck and alot of tokens" but i am talking from high rank (5-1) presective meaning that almost every player will have atleast 2 or 3 free energy preimum weapons and even the meta builds doesnot have energy variants cause as i mentioned before there is alot of weapons that can counter energy builds and even if we compared between the meta weapons and its energy variants we will find that the heat type has better stats (the axe in the hugger mechs does 50 heat cap while the energy type does 40) not to mention the drone in the hugger mech that does a FREAKING 110 HEAT and i dont really think there is a way to make energy meta again other than making a new weapons Wrong. Energy was never about disabling the opponent, that's what heat is for. Energy excells at insanely high burst damage with weapons such as UPC/Bunker/Valiant or at least that used to be the case until the dual mods got released, now you can have it all from max electric resist to high regen as well alongside high HP which rendered 99% of energy builds obsolete because their weapons are too heavy to be able to then also equip high health and cooling + regen. Also let's completely ignore the fact many energy weapons are better than their heat counterparts why don't you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heller Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 20 hours ago, Jahy Sama said: Now you have me lost res is common thing in high ranks basicly every player in the top ladder has high res so having 150 red wont give you so much advantage cause your enemy will has high res too 11 hours ago, Deimos said: Energy was never about disabling the opponent, that's what heat is for and thats what gives free energy mechs an advantage over energy builds while with heat you can take a turn away from them 11 hours ago, Deimos said: Also let's completely ignore the fact many energy weapons are better than their heat counterparts why don't you i looked at the weapons stats and only some E-M energy weapons have better stats than heat weapons (heat bomb have higher stats) but thats not the case with L-M items Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 27 minutes ago, heller said: res is common thing in high ranks basicly every player in the top ladder has high res so having 150 red wont give you so much advantage cause your enemy will has high res too and thats what gives free energy mechs an advantage over energy builds while with heat you can take a turn away from them i looked at the weapons stats and only some E-M energy weapons have better stats than heat weapons (heat bomb have higher stats) but thats not the case with L-M items Lies. Here's the list of energy weapons weaker in terms of damage than their heat counterparts: Frantic brute, BigDaddy, Ultrabright and Viking hammer. Rest is equal or straight up better and not to mention all of the items I mentioned still have better energy damage stats than the heat has heat damage. As to the previous statement, duh. Shutting down an enemy mech is not always useful, they can easily get rid of the heat by a single shutdown and kick kick your ass. Once you drain someone it's much harder for them to regain their energy than it is to cool down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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