Windforge rework proposal - by LG

[Fordekash]

Hard to argue with LG. I’m on board with your proposal good sir.

[SIMDuarte]

That would be very OP ... I think they should do some tests with it ... because that would make regeneration modules useless and they would have to be buffed ... It would be considerable to increase 37 energy damage.

[Killer gamer 22322]

Wait 100+ energy drain? How about make a emp drone...... Imagine 7 emp on one mech......

[Tirreggregars]

On 1/17/2021 at 1:30 PM, SawzAll said:

Say that all you want, but when they over-buff it, as seems to be their tendency, it will only nerf the other drones.  And it doesn't change what I said: buffing Windforge will not fix energy overnight.  Besides, damage to weight ratio isn't an invalid point: I'm using it to say Windforge is already good (just like Swoop was before it got buffed).  Now Swoop is over-buffed so it looks like, so far, what I said was correct.

Forgive my cynicism, but knowing our luck, it will do more drain than the premium drones when they over-buff it, which will only complicate the problem.

Feel free to disagree with me, but I voted no.

It isnÄt valid, no one would equip a 1 kg drone that deals 20-25 damage, why? because it's irrelevant, and even now, swoop is useful, but requires a complete build change to be played, and if it weren't for the low cooling 4k hp mechs in the arena heat would be a lot weaker.

[SawzAll]

4 hours ago, Tirreggregars said:

It isnÄt valid, no one would equip a 1 kg drone that deals 20-25 damage, why? because it's irrelevant, and even now, swoop is useful, but requires a complete build change to be played, and if it weren't for the low cooling 4k hp mechs in the arena heat would be a lot weaker.

It is valid because some people build the mech first, then use the left over weight for the drone.

[L4K3]

On 1/17/2021 at 8:53 PM, SawzAll said:

I respectfully disagree.

Oh,Clevername's META,20 years of experience old man old worker,F-(random number),energy,realism,opinion.

OH will you just shut up and stop with this nonsense already?

On 1/17/2021 at 8:53 PM, SawzAll said:

But I think if we're going to make energy mechs a valid thing, we would have to prevent other mechs from being able to basically totally ignore them.

Look,it's not bad.

But instead of doing that and literally cutting down both the factor of variety and of multitude of choices,why not make energy mechs *on par* as in *on the same level* with such mechs?

No,I don't mean buffing the entire energy type (although that doesn't sound so bad,so long as EMP and UPC don't get a buff but rather a massive fix).I mean buffing certain key items like...you guessed...WINDFORGE!

Just as heat has say...Sorrow;phys has all these very few couple win-condition energy-free items,energy could have its win-conditions,starting with a Windforge rework and a few other items.And by that,I mean a *very* few items.

[Yeet]

This drone has needed a buff since like 2018

Surprised it hasn't happened yet, needs to be done for sure

[SawzAll]

3 hours ago, L4K3 said:

OH will you just shut up and stop with this nonsense already?

Blocked.

Edited January 23, 2021 by SawzAll (see edit history)

[fig]

9 hours ago, L4K3 said:

OH will you just shut up and stop with this nonsense already?

@L4K3 be cautious with your manners , It is not discord here . Reported .

[A Happy F4ce]

 

Yes.

[Tirreggregars]

23 hours ago, SawzAll said:

It is valid because some people build the mech first, then use the left over weight for the drone.

A mech without a good drone has 0 chances, the drone is a crucial part of the mech. Maybe the most important. It essentially gives you an extra action point to fire a weapon each turn, in any scenario an opponent that doesn't activate the drone throughout the match has just given themselves a huge disadvantage. 71-114 damage, when most opponents have over 100 resistance is just not enough. And no matter how light it is, I would rather change my modules, maybe replace an engine with a booster than equip a drone that consistently hits 1 damage.

[Mechzilla]

On 1/16/2021 at 1:22 AM, Lord Gorgon said:

Patient of the day: the tiny electrical drone; windforge.

Main attributes of this drone are low weight and large energy drain. With today's regenerative capabilities, the drain is way to low to do the intended job properly, damage usually hits for 1. Drone is close to useless.

As per putting it in perspective with swoop, which has low damage, low weight and 46 heat generation more than the second larger heater drone (guardian), i propose the following buff to windforge:

- +61 energy drain

- +15% damage

Keep in mind that electrical type is currently (and since long time) at the bottom of the food chain.

Feel free to coment on the subject here bellow and to participate to the poll.

 

Thanks, LG 

I question whether +15% damage is enough in a meta era with such high resistance. Yes, drain is the drone’s main function. Drain and run does not seem to be a particularly successful battle tactic at this time. So many energy free weapons and incredible resistance numbers require a “steroid buff” for this drone in my opinion... +30-50% damage, stick with LG’s +61 energy drain. 

[Manolis109]

thanks for creating this topic. It speaks for me as well, LG (even tho I don't have a windforge yet)

[Elcent]

Personally as a heavy windforge user its nice to see this sort of thread to revive it. 

The original focus of this weapon to me was heavy energy damage and resistance drain. Therefore I would propose a reasonable energy increase and an increase to the resistance drain. 

• +61 although it seems high is realistic given the recent swoop buff. Perhaps even higher would not be a bad thing. 
• Increasing the resistance drain from 5 to 10 would be a nice way of digging away at those that have a large amount of resistance. 
• Lastly to allow these large buffs I think increasing the energy cost from 31 to 41 ish would be fair. This would only impact energy vs energy battles and would help ensure the yoyo effect is lowered slightly.

yoyo effect: a mech that has 69 energy currently can do 721 energy damage. It can make energy very luck/who goes first rather than skill and positioning. 

 

 

[SawzAll]

12 minutes ago, Elcent said:

Personally as a heavy windforge user its nice to see this sort of thread to revive it. 

The original focus of this weapon to me was heavy energy damage and resistance drain. Therefore I would propose a reasonable energy increase and an increase to the resistance drain. 

• +61 although it seems high is realistic given the recent swoop buff. Perhaps even higher would not be a bad thing. 
• Increasing the resistance drain from 5 to 10 would be a nice way of digging away at those that have a large amount of resistance. 
• Lastly to allow these large buffs I think increasing the energy cost from 31 to 41 ish would be fair. This would only impact energy vs energy battles and would help ensure the yoyo effect is lowered slightly. (a mech that has 69 energy currently can do 721 energy damage) 

 

I can understand that, but also I must point out that those who own an item are probably less likely to be objective when they vote "yes" to buff it, because it benefits them.  And people are less likely to go vote for something they don't own not to be buffed because, in their minds, it doesn't concern them because they don't have one.  So this vote is, I wager, highly skewed from the start.

I don't agree with "is realistic given the recent swoop buff."  That was an over-buff.  If something immediately becomes META, rather than an option in META, it's an over-buff.

What I feel is not realistic is that these two, Windforge and Swoop, are already the lightest.  Is it really logical that the lightest drones end up being also the best?  That's just not logical.  See for instance how Tonto has a higher output than Greedy, but also has twice the weight.  Weight should follow damage and drain, in my opinion.  So right now the heat drones are out of whack, in my opinion, because Swoop is OP for how light it is.  (Yes, over-powered.)

Again, I think the problem with energy is much deeper than just one drone.  I love energy: it was the first mech I made, the first mech I purchased in the store, and is still mech #1 in my line-up.  And it's my avatar on here and on discord.

But at the same time I believe what's wrong with energy is more systemic.  Weapons that do less resistance or less energy damage than their heat or physical counterparts.  Lots of weapons that are energy-free.  That's really what's wrong with energy, in my opinion.  Buffing Windforge wouldn't really help as much as a LOT of other things.

If anything, in my opinion, just taking the energy vs heat weapons that look identical side by side (like Ultra Bright versus Dawn Blaze, etc.) and buff energy to match the heat damage (but with energy damage obviously) and the resistance of the weapons back and forth.

Then re-evaluate how many energy-free weapons this game should have.  With all due respect, if heat and physical can make very OP META builds that are completely energy-free, the problem is bigger than just whether Windforge does enough energy drain.  The problem is the game itself has been rigged against energy.

And for instance, for the longest time we didn't have a top 10 arena player that was energy.  We did for a while (dual valiant if I remember correctly) but now we don't, again.  That's a good indication that energy is not equal when physical and heat vastly outnumber it.  Also, when people are tempted to run 3 heat or 3 physical, totally excluding energy.

So whether the masses vote to buff Windforge or not, again, I think that would be a bandaid solution.  Unless we're going to make all the greedy-looking drones (windforge, greedy, and swoop) nearly equal in output to make the game symmetrical.

I think making things symmetrical would be the actual fix for energy.  Now that Swoop has been over-buffed, we basically "owe it" to Greedy and Windforge to make them about equal.  And the cycle repeats itself.

I think I'm going to have to get a day to spend an hour and really think about this problem, as it's way bigger than just Windforge.

So vote however you want.  I'm not against buffing Windforge now that Swoop is over-buffed: it's either reverse the Swoop buff or buff the other two.  Your choice.  But I would appreciate it if people stop asking like simply buffing Windforge is going to reverse a systemic problem in this game that began long before Swoop got buffed.  I don't know how long ago, since I'm not a long-term player, but it's been longer than just the last 5 months I've been playing, that's for sure.

Edited February 4, 2021 by SawzAll (see edit history)

[L4K3]

I highly agree to Elcent and,at this point,everyone who is not SawzAll.

The moment this forum notifies me of a thread and tells me ''Elcent,X,Y,blah blah... and *SawzAll* replied to this thread*'',I know I'm better off not even bothering to check it out.

Again,thanks for a good thread LG and it's something that hasn't been suggested in way longer than it should have.Let's hope for a buff in the near future.The way this new team seems,it's not a problem of ''if or not'',but rather a question of ''when and how''.I have my hopes for this although,personally,this doesn't change much overall;game experience remains the same because of other aspects that apparently have no way around.

 

 

[A Happy F4ce]

please make my favourite type viable again without needing that stupid energy shark thing