Frantic Brute post balance

[MasterChief]

i just saw a 670..... i only had -15 resist...

[Norman]

Second option in life  

[Ad1tya]

2 hours ago, Norman said:

1.  Old frantic than can deal 800+ dmg.
2.  New frantic that been nerf and need more energy and heat than usually.

 

when the old frantic hit -100 in a row 

[Norman]

Thanos:

[Ad1tya]

2 minutes ago, Norman said:

Thanos:

Also Thanos :

Meanwhile Alex thinking about balance changes:

[Norman]

My reality: LMAO

[Liam.M.Lucas_2020]

 

To stay on topic, i've been seeing a lot more builds with frantic in rank 3-1 since the "nerf"

Edited January 18, 2021 by Liam.M.Lucas_2020 (see edit history)

[Ad1tya]

Dont know about 3-1 but yeah 5-3 is filled with frantics

[Norman]

I sure rank 3-1 did't use frantic, but instead use hugger, energy free psy 4k hp and heat build.

but sure rank 9-6 lot of them use it 

[Shoultz262]

40 minutes ago, Liam.M.Lucas_2020 said:

 

To stay on topic, i've been seeing a lot more builds with frantic in rank 3-1 since the "nerf"

Because the cost nerf isn't that bad, if you play smart and have good cooling it doesn't change much. Energy cost is now about the same as other phys weapons, meanwhile frantic became more stable, which means while you won't get 700+ shots anymore, it has a higher chance of doing stable 400+ shots because its average damage is higher than spartan's, which means it has better burst damage potential, hence why so many players still use it.

[Shoultz262]

This wasn't really a nerf at all, I would say that the rework actually made it better instead.

[W.H.I.T.E.O.U.T]

42 minutes ago, Shoultz262 said:

This wasn't really a nerf at all, I would say that the rework actually made it better instead.

That, and it has increased Frantic Brute addiction among Brute loyalists and potential loyalists.

[Kirubi]

in my opinion,the frantic balance is good in exchange of great range and damage,you receive a lot of heat and energy used.Less RNG and more like non-premium spartan

[Shoultz262]

9 hours ago, Kirubi said:

in my opinion,the frantic balance is good in exchange of great range and damage,you receive a lot of heat and energy used.Less RNG and more like non-premium spartan

Lot of heat and energy used sure. And it's arguably better than spartan just because of the much higher burst damage.

[SawzAll]

9 minutes ago, Shoultz262 said:

Lot of heat and energy used sure. And it's arguably better than spartan just because of the much higher burst damage.

Which is why I don't think the nerf to frantic brute went far enough.  Again, I think it should've just become identical to spartan carnage, but 2 shots instead of 3 (so that premium is premium).  But oh well.

[W.H.I.T.E.O.U.T]

Nerf Purifier. (Just a joke)

But for real, why not lower the Brute's minimum damage by just a tad bit?

 

[rc]

On 1/19/2021 at 5:25 AM, SawzAll said:

Which is why I don't think the nerf to frantic brute went far enough.  Again, I think it should've just become identical to spartan carnage, but 2 shots instead of 3 (so that premium is premium).  But oh well.

I can only thank God you aren’t the developer.

On 1/19/2021 at 5:15 AM, Shoultz262 said:

And it's arguably better than spartan just because of the much higher burst damage.

Nope, Brute still doesn’t cut it against Spartan. Brute is 2 shots while Spartan is 3 shots. Burst damage means nothing if Brute players still die. Lol!

If what you say were true, then I'd have traded in my Spartans for Brutes. On the contrary, I fused 4 of my Brute stockpile after I saw Brute was nerfed.

On 1/8/2021 at 8:24 AM, Shoultz262 said:

but between rank 5-3 they are still very common.

Actually, I haven’t seen Brute much lately in rank 5-3. It seems to me it’s mostly abandoned now days.

On 1/8/2021 at 8:24 AM, Shoultz262 said:

The nerf to its damage wasn't really a nerf.

Really? So, Brute hitting 500+ damage instead of its previous 800+ damage isn’t a nerf at all? That’s interesting you think 800+ damage decreased to 500+ damage isn’t a nerf.

Edited January 20, 2021 by rc (see edit history)

[W.H.I.T.E.O.U.T]

2 hours ago, rc said:

Really? So, Brute hitting 500+ damage instead of its previous 800+ damage isn’t a nerf at all? That’s interesting you think 800+ damage decreased to 500+ damage isn’t a nerf.

I'm pretty sure that what Shoultz is trying to say is that while the max damage cap of the Brute was lowered, it hasn't affected the average shot damage that the Brute tends to do, which is around 400 - 500 most of the time.

Yes, that means that there's no more potential for those 800+ hits, but the 400 average damage is still around due to the more forgiving minimum damage that used to be a failsafe that kept the Brute in line (for the most part).

As for the burst damage, it's really reliant on how you perceive it. A Brute can manage to outdamage a Spartan if the Brute hits 400 twice while the Spartan hits 200 or so for all three shots and the other way around if the Brute hits 200 twice and the Spartan hits 400 (pretty unlikely) three times (seriously unlikely).

So, whether the Brute is better than Spartan or not, it could potentially be agreed upon that the Brute is now more likely to deal consistent damage without the low minimum holding it back.

[rc]

1 hour ago, W.H.I.T.E.O.U.T said:

I'm pretty sure that what Shoultz is trying to say is that while the max damage cap of the Brute was lowered, it hasn't affected the average shot damage that the Brute tends to do, which is around 400 - 500 most of the time.

Yes, that means that there's no more potential for those 800+ hits, but the 400 average damage is still around due to the more forgiving minimum damage that used to be a failsafe that kept the Brute in line (for the most part).

So, you’re saying 500+ damage is preferable to 800+ damage? Lol!

1 hour ago, W.H.I.T.E.O.U.T said:

As for the burst damage, it's really reliant on how you perceive it. A Brute can manage to outdamage a Spartan if the Brute hits 400 twice while the Spartan hits 200 or so for all three shots and the other way around if the Brute hits 200 twice and the Spartan hits 400 (pretty unlikely) three times (seriously unlikely).

With my Spartans against Brute, that can happen. But rarely does that happen for me, even when Brute was capable of hitting 800+ damage in the past.

Edited January 21, 2021 by rc (see edit history)

[Shoultz262]

1 hour ago, rc said:

So, you’re saying 500+ damage is preferable to 800+ damage? Lol!

With my Spartans against Brute, that can happen. But rarely does that happen for me, even when Brute was capable of hitting 800+ damage in the past.

You don't often get 800+ damage all the time, but now 500+ damage shots are more constant because of the more stable range, so yes, 800+ damage with a low roll is preferable to 2 mid-high rolls of 500+. 

[rc]

Just now, Shoultz262 said:

You don't often get 800+ damage all the time

Oh really! Then, why did people in the old forum often complain about getting hit with 800+ damage all the time? Lol, remember L4K3?

Just now, Shoultz262 said:

but now 500+ damage shots are more constant because of the more stable range, so yes, 800+ damage with a low roll is preferable to 2 mid-high rolls of 500+. 

With you saying that and you saying Brute is better than Spartan, will you use Brute now?

Yesterday, I had 10 matches in a row. During that time, I only saw one Brute player. The majority were heaters. With that said, I can safely conclude Brute players disagree with you. If Brute is so good now days, shouldn’t I be seeing more Brute players instead of less?

[SawzAll]

The problem in my opinion is more the game philosophy.  If we're going to have premiums (and the SM business model requires it right now) then premiums should always be, on average better than non-premiums.  Frantic Brute's average damage is 360, Spartan Carnage is 323.  If anything, those should be equal, and then the premium factor for Spartan would be 3 shots rather than 2.

As is, you can max out a monkey torso and a dual Frantic Brute player can saw through your mech in 2 turns.  I don't think average damage is the problem: I think it's something in the RNG.  But I could be wrong.  And to be fair, I'm human, so it's possible I'm only remembering my bad experiences with it, not my good experiences.

Edited January 21, 2021 by SawzAll (see edit history)

[Liam.M.Lucas_2020]

When companies use philosophy is when time ends. 

[SawzAll]

10 minutes ago, Liam.M.Lucas_2020 said:

When companies use philosophy is when time ends. 

With all due respect, that statement doesn't make sense.

[Liam.M.Lucas_2020]

Neither is big companies using philosophy over money.