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Calculating which items to divine first


SawzAll

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Here's a list of most to least bang for your buck in terms of divining certain items.  It's still a work in progress.  At the bottom, I will explain the long story.

image.thumb.png.1868c635ee802f400fd002107b031e4f.png

image.thumb.png.e741eb4ad838bb121103afd89ca2ad34.png

image.thumb.png.c30d1ed5bf162c1b07f1aa210024e9bd.png

image.thumb.png.811c75612326cbad096577dd0fb5ff51.png

image.thumb.png.7ad260e6033c229ab49dd2ac8306f3cc.png

image.thumb.png.76e3dd17453f46d71927abe3ffbb28a8.png

SHORT STORY: This chart can help you decide what items to divine (but it's "on paper" so use your brain).

LONG STORY: So in my year+ of playing SM, sometimes I've wondered which items I should divine first.  So I set about doing some math to determine this, based on the difference that is made in the stats.

Basically, looking at what stat increases and by how much is used here to determine "bang for the buck," or statistically what factors increase the most.  There are some caveats to this but just hold on, I'm going to explain.  I am still looking for those who can help me with screenshots on these types of items (the page in SM that tells you what you gain by ascending an item).

The great players who have played / are playing SM usually recommend to divine torsos first.  If you look at this chart, you see this is confirmed.  This is because heat, energy, and HP of torsos are increased when you divine them.  Sure, this isn't rocket science, we know this.

But this is useful mainly for other circumstances.  For example, if you're a new player and you can divine either your malice beam or your lightning recoiler, you may not know which you want to divine first.  This chart tells you which item's difference in stats would be the greatest, i.e. which will receive the most benefit from being divined.  (I don't have malice beam yet but based on a 5% reduction from divine, it appears you should divine your malice beams before your lightning recoiler.)

Now note that this chart is pure math, nothing else.  Obviously this chart is a tool or guide, but it does not account for all factors.  It tries to account for how many times you use it in an arena battle by using the more or less "3-4 turns" concept, so unlimited use items receive a "4" here.  Face shocker receives a 3, etc.  This is just to, statistically, try to account for items with limited shots.  This seems to also match real world game knowledge, as most people don't recommend to newbies to divine their basalt dissolvers first, for example.

But what I mean is even looking at this chart, you need to determine what is more important to you.  You should still divine torsos first, but if you have 3 divine MPV and 3 divine LPV like me, your next move is usually not to divine HPV.  HPV is useful for some RAID, campaign, and titan stuff, but you don't use it as often as MPV and LPV in this game, so obviously HPV should not be your next divine if you just got your 5th legendary ascension relic.

So as you look at the chart, think, "what do I use the most?" and use that to decide among the items you use the most.

So for example, my 3v3 heat damage team I'm currently using.  I am using items like Abomination, Shadow Wolf, and Burning Shower.  Per this chart, burning shower receives the most benefit from being divined, so if I'm choosing between these 3 items, I should divine burning shower first, but of course assuming I've already divined more important items like torsos and such.

Statistically, modules tend to be towards the bottom, though platinums would be "most" important statistically, followed by defense matrices, combined engines, and quad cores.  Does that mean you should divine defense matrix?  In my opinion, no, because defense matrix, while very useful, is not an "end game" item.  Your "end game" builds are triple fortress.  I have made rank 1 using defense matrix, but barely.  I generally don't consider defense matrix a "rank 1" item.

I'm still trying to get more data, so this chart IS NOT COMPLETE.  But it's getting close.  There are many other factors to consider like efficiency (damage to weight for weapons, etc.) and build (for instance, Sorrow isn't that good on paper but it works very well in certain builds).

If you would like to help me with this data, contact me on discord.  Thanks!

Edited by SawzAll (see edit history)

"Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

http://www.puresimplicity.net/~oneeyedcat/misc/supermechs.html

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I agree. Sure, all depend on inventory at disposition and tendency and preference how to play the game. As SawzAll indicate, sure go first with TORSO and I recommend that as first item to go for. When I started the game with my nice, we had no clue what the heck were for those relics and passed some time to figure out because took very long to get 4 epic relics and I mean months. 

Not knowing and never asking to players and just testing how those things will work, we divined our first weapon CORRUPT LIGHT then we understood we needed to be careful. 

By the time we got a basic understanding, we got a claw and built the first phys hugger. We were using Mercy with selfish with energy monkey and not fully developed modules. Due to the damage was inconsistent, we opt to divine Mercy and Selfish and took us a very long time because we were solo players to get those relics at high rank. 

So far in OKI, I have only 2 premium divined weapons and still the same the Mercy and Selfish. I opted to go for torsos having claws then new adjustment to molten I developed them then new legs as second option in line.

For me, torso and legs come first then a drone because those are part of the mech foundation regardless any other weapon because those parts are universal. 

Why do I not have more weapons divined at this point? Just choice for fun. I decided to increase HP with modules but those are the last to do as SawzAll indicated but because I do not have a particular mech preference to use or care about, I went for modules because those are the foundation regardless powerful weapons. 

So, TORSO, LEGS and DRONE are priority in my opinion in that order. If you will develop a second mech, keep saving relics for your next TORSO and leg instead to use them on weapons. Finish a 3 set of torso and leg if possible before going for anything else with limited relics. 

In my O.D FARM acc, I have zero premium weapon divined just torso I do not have premium legs divined like in OKI and just premium modules divined due to choose to do so. Sure, I do have some some E-M divined due to excess of epic relics in the storage because I do not want to spend gold transforming just leveling up parts. 

Remember, TORSO and LEG, it is a HP stablished not a variable of probability like the weapons outputs. You can divine a good weapon but that does not mean you will get the shot to win against a MYTH status weapon or mech. I win all the time without divined weapons vs divined when I play for. 

SawzAll always come with good info with logic and giving good tips. Is worthy to read what he is saying. 

 

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21 hours ago, SawzAll said:

Here's a list of most to least bang for your buck in terms of divining certain items.  It's still a work in progress.  At the bottom, I will explain the long story.

image.thumb.png.1868c635ee802f400fd002107b031e4f.png

image.thumb.png.e741eb4ad838bb121103afd89ca2ad34.png

image.thumb.png.c30d1ed5bf162c1b07f1aa210024e9bd.png

image.thumb.png.811c75612326cbad096577dd0fb5ff51.png

image.thumb.png.7ad260e6033c229ab49dd2ac8306f3cc.png

image.thumb.png.76e3dd17453f46d71927abe3ffbb28a8.png

SHORT STORY: This chart can help you decide what items to divine (but it's "on paper" so use your brain).

LONG STORY: So in my year+ of playing SM, sometimes I've wondered which items I should divine first.  So I set about doing some math to determine this, based on the difference that is made in the stats.

Basically, looking at what stat increases and by how much is used here to determine "bang for the buck," or statistically what factors increase the most.  There are some caveats to this but just hold on, I'm going to explain.  I am still looking for those who can help me with screenshots on these types of items (the page in SM that tells you what you gain by ascending an item).

The great players who have played / are playing SM usually recommend to divine torsos first.  If you look at this chart, you see this is confirmed.  This is because heat, energy, and HP of torsos are increased when you divine them.  Sure, this isn't rocket science, we know this.

But this is useful mainly for other circumstances.  For example, if you're a new player and you can divine either your malice beam or your lightning recoiler, you may not know which you want to divine first.  This chart tells you which item's difference in stats would be the greatest, i.e. which will receive the most benefit from being divined.  (I don't have malice beam yet but based on a 5% reduction from divine, it appears you should divine your malice beams before your lightning recoiler.)

Now note that this chart is pure math, nothing else.  Obviously this chart is a tool or guide, but it does not account for all factors.  It tries to account for how many times you use it in an arena battle by using the more or less "3-4 turns" concept, so unlimited use items receive a "4" here.  Face shocker receives a 3, etc.  This is just to, statistically, try to account for items with limited shots.  This seems to also match real world game knowledge, as most people don't recommend to newbies to divine their basalt dissolvers first, for example.

But what I mean is even looking at this chart, you need to determine what is more important to you.  You should still divine torsos first, but if you have 3 divine MPV and 3 divine LPV like me, your next move is usually not to divine HPV.  HPV is useful for some RAID, campaign, and titan stuff, but you don't use it as often as MPV and LPV in this game, so obviously HPV should not be your next divine if you just got your 5th legendary ascension relic.

So as you look at the chart, think, "what do I use the most?" and use that to decide among the items you use the most.

So for example, my 3v3 heat damage team I'm currently using.  I am using items like Abomination, Shadow Wolf, and Burning Shower.  Per this chart, burning shower receives the most benefit from being divined, so if I'm choosing between these 3 items, I should divine burning shower first, but of course assuming I've already divined more important items like torsos and such.

Statistically, modules tend to be towards the bottom, though platinums would be "most" important statistically, followed by defense matrices, combined engines, and quad cores.  Does that mean you should divine defense matrix?  In my opinion, no, because defense matrix, while very useful, is not an "end game" item.  Your "end game" builds are triple fortress.  I have made rank 1 using defense matrix, but barely.  I generally don't consider defense matrix a "rank 1" item.

I'm still trying to get more data, so this chart IS NOT COMPLETE.  But it's getting close.  There are many other factors to consider like efficiency (damage to weight for weapons, etc.) and build (for instance, Sorrow isn't that good on paper but it works very well in certain builds).

If you would like to help me with this data, contact me on discord.  Thanks!

I don’t understand the chart 😅

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19 hours ago, BananaananaB said:

I don’t understand the chart 😅

No problem.  What it does is take factors that are increased by divining.  Because damage is a minimum and maximum, I had to use average of the two as one of the factors.  Heat weapons end up doing more heat, so that's a factor.  The point of this "ugly" math is to just get what 5% does.  So if you were going to buy something that's 5% off and it's normally $100, that's a $5 discount.  This is the opposite: it measures total amount of increase.

Then it takes into account how many uses the item has (4 for unlimited use, based on the average turns in arena battles).  This then tells you, basically, how much of that increase you will see in the arena.  It's not perfect but it's a guess.

For example, scopes would see the most increase.  But if you don't take into account that they are 1 use, you'll think you should divine all your scopes first, not your torsos or whatever.

Basically, this chart tries to tell you what's the best way to use your gold and ascension relics.  That way you don't accidentally divine your basalt dissolver, for example, thinking it's going to make a huge difference in the arena.

"Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

http://www.puresimplicity.net/~oneeyedcat/misc/supermechs.html

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  • 1 year later...
On 6/8/2022 at 1:25 PM, SawzAll said:

Here's a list of most to least bang for your buck in terms of divining certain items.  It's still a work in progress.  At the bottom, I will explain the long story.

image.thumb.png.1868c635ee802f400fd002107b031e4f.png

image.thumb.png.e741eb4ad838bb121103afd89ca2ad34.png

image.thumb.png.c30d1ed5bf162c1b07f1aa210024e9bd.png

image.thumb.png.811c75612326cbad096577dd0fb5ff51.png

image.thumb.png.7ad260e6033c229ab49dd2ac8306f3cc.png

image.thumb.png.76e3dd17453f46d71927abe3ffbb28a8.png

SHORT STORY: This chart can help you decide what items to divine (but it's "on paper" so use your brain).

LONG STORY: So in my year+ of playing SM, sometimes I've wondered which items I should divine first.  So I set about doing some math to determine this, based on the difference that is made in the stats.

Basically, looking at what stat increases and by how much is used here to determine "bang for the buck," or statistically what factors increase the most.  There are some caveats to this but just hold on, I'm going to explain.  I am still looking for those who can help me with screenshots on these types of items (the page in SM that tells you what you gain by ascending an item).

The great players who have played / are playing SM usually recommend to divine torsos first.  If you look at this chart, you see this is confirmed.  This is because heat, energy, and HP of torsos are increased when you divine them.  Sure, this isn't rocket science, we know this.

But this is useful mainly for other circumstances.  For example, if you're a new player and you can divine either your malice beam or your lightning recoiler, you may not know which you want to divine first.  This chart tells you which item's difference in stats would be the greatest, i.e. which will receive the most benefit from being divined.  (I don't have malice beam yet but based on a 5% reduction from divine, it appears you should divine your malice beams before your lightning recoiler.)

Now note that this chart is pure math, nothing else.  Obviously this chart is a tool or guide, but it does not account for all factors.  It tries to account for how many times you use it in an arena battle by using the more or less "3-4 turns" concept, so unlimited use items receive a "4" here.  Face shocker receives a 3, etc.  This is just to, statistically, try to account for items with limited shots.  This seems to also match real world game knowledge, as most people don't recommend to newbies to divine their basalt dissolvers first, for example.

But what I mean is even looking at this chart, you need to determine what is more important to you.  You should still divine torsos first, but if you have 3 divine MPV and 3 divine LPV like me, your next move is usually not to divine HPV.  HPV is useful for some RAID, campaign, and titan stuff, but you don't use it as often as MPV and LPV in this game, so obviously HPV should not be your next divine if you just got your 5th legendary ascension relic.

So as you look at the chart, think, "what do I use the most?" and use that to decide among the items you use the most.

So for example, my 3v3 heat damage team I'm currently using.  I am using items like Abomination, Shadow Wolf, and Burning Shower.  Per this chart, burning shower receives the most benefit from being divined, so if I'm choosing between these 3 items, I should divine burning shower first, but of course assuming I've already divined more important items like torsos and such.

Statistically, modules tend to be towards the bottom, though platinums would be "most" important statistically, followed by defense matrices, combined engines, and quad cores.  Does that mean you should divine defense matrix?  In my opinion, no, because defense matrix, while very useful, is not an "end game" item.  Your "end game" builds are triple fortress.  I have made rank 1 using defense matrix, but barely.  I generally don't consider defense matrix a "rank 1" item.

I'm still trying to get more data, so this chart IS NOT COMPLETE.  But it's getting close.  There are many other factors to consider like efficiency (damage to weight for weapons, etc.) and build (for instance, Sorrow isn't that good on paper but it works very well in certain builds).

If you would like to help me with this data, contact me on discord.  Thanks!

good stuff. I miss this guy around. 🥴

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