The “easy” answer to rebalancing?

[SawzAll]

13 hours ago, Liam.M.Lucas_2020 said:

I don't need it, I run an energy free mech. 

They're common in top ranks, I can show you a few other energy free builds for inspiration if you would like.

Sorry, I missed that fact.

[Shoultz262]

On 1/3/2021 at 12:16 PM, Liam.M.Lucas_2020 said:

"buff energy"

 

Those are just the drone shots.

 

I still have resistance in this one.

 

With this in mind, I respectfully do not agree that we should buff energy since its main gimmick is that it  does a lot  of damage when it drains. If we buff it, then we will see way more energy counters and mechs of the sort. If you want energy to do more damage when the opponent to it has over 800 energy and 80 energy resistance, that you would need a whole rework of how energy works. 

This doesn't prove much, you were on a pad for almost the entire game, And you got corner bullied. That doesn't mean energy is that strong, it's just the opponent took advantage of your weakness and destroyed you.

If you were using a magma/sorrow mech then it would probably be very different.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Shoultz262 (see edit history)

[Liam.M.Lucas_2020]

2 hours ago, Shoultz262 said:

This doesn't prove much, you were on a pad for almost the entire game, And you got corner bullied. That doesn't mean energy is that strong, it's just the opponent took advantage of your weakness and destroyed you.

If you were using a magma/sorrow mech than it would probably be very different.

 This is true, but if I was in the same situation with the physical or heat element, they both would be doing way less damage compared to energy mechs. 

The only point i'm trying to make here is that IT DOESN'T NEED A BUFF, i'm not even saying its overpowered. While they may rare in lower ranks, I can assure you that they are just as common as heat and physical in top ranks, and just as hard to beat too.

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Liam.M.Lucas_2020 (see edit history)

[L4K3]

On 1/2/2021 at 7:52 PM, Shoultz262 said:

You can't get 750 drain unless you use both emp and valiant in the same turn, and that's only possible at range 4. In most cases the opponent is smart enough to not stay there anyway.

Correction.

You can do that with pretty much an EMP (E-M weapon),a Malice Beam/Hysteria (E-M weapons) and even a Snack (E-M Drone),or better (or worse),a Face Shocker (a E-M drone,too).So no,it's just so insanely easy achievable.

On 1/3/2021 at 4:34 AM, SawzAll said:

Two X 2 shots X potential of 240 drain (with arena shop buffs).  Four shots of 240 (i.e. 960) is better than one shot of 412.

Yeah,but just in case you're still new here and don't understand the mechanics.

In the case of a two Valiant hits (which is ''BETTER'') than ONE EMP,ONE EMP only takes ONE action point,so thus that 400 (''WORSE'' than 2 Val hits) can turn into 6-700 ''quite'' easily.

Please,research a little before arguing about this.I both hate and love the most to deal with you,biased people.

On 1/2/2021 at 7:52 PM, Shoultz262 said:

The superb charge engine should also be nerfed.

Highly agreed.

On 1/2/2021 at 7:52 PM, Shoultz262 said:

Plus, emp is ineffective against energy free builds, and you have to dedicate a lot of modules to energy stats to be able to use it effectively, especially other energy mechs, where often emp is misused.

Yeah,mate,WHAT a Re-WOW-LIEF!

Good thing every single mech is energy-free,almost!!Like literally,there's at least 20 of them at every rank,from 25 upwards.

Like energy-free are so very very easy to build.You can build them with anything and that's what makes them so common that EMP is literally ouch-chew PFFFT useless.And the game like guarantees you energy-free weapons,like 15 of them a month.And also an en-free torso and like 40 Plat Plates.You get all of that like a few times every day if you farm enough,so yeah,easy,heck yeah buddy,keep talking.

On 1/3/2021 at 4:34 AM, SawzAll said:

That's like saying the .22 rifle is ineffecive because US military uses M4/M16.  (I carried an M16 in Iraq).  It's not that .22 rifle isn't effective for civilians who hunt game that's smaller than a deer.  It's that the military doesn't think it's enough power to equip everyone with it.  I'm sure there are some special forces and odd tactics uses for .22 such as survival uses, but just because it's not the main thing don't mean it's not effective.  In fact, it excels at survival use where .223 (M4/M16) does not, in that it is compact.

Same for the FN P90.  Just because OUR military don't use that rifle doesn't mean it's ineffective elsewhere in the world.

Look,you've eraned yourself some respect for talking my language,but one thing's for sure.

EMP,even though it's indeed balanced as it is,is unfair by default.Like it isn't the stats making it a ruin,but rather the idea itself.

The idea that it may be quite a fun and devastating factor against energy mechs,as where it is literally the no-reason-drain,brainless,insta-energy-death to phys and heats.

Because of that reason,it's f***ing broken.Although this tiny little HUGE detail is overlooked for completely understandable factors.

Look,I have an energy-free mech so leave it as it is;I couldn't care less.But I still can't stand the idea that it's god damn unfair.Poor dudes getting drained without the chance to fight back,as in the case of phys and heat against it.

Literally insta-drain,insta-lose and insta-quit for what?For a fault in designing the actual balance of this thing?Hell naw,mate.

Edited January 5, 2021 by L4K3
Why the heck did this get hidden by def?Even the system is biased about EMP ffs...Ugh (see edit history)

[Shoultz262]

8 hours ago, Liam.M.Lucas_2020 said:

 This is true, but if I was in the same situation with the physical or heat element, they both would be doing way less damage compared to energy mechs. 

The only point i'm trying to make here is that IT DOESN'T NEED A BUFF, i'm not even saying its overpowered. While they may rare in lower ranks, I can assure you that they are just as common as heat and physical in top ranks, and just as hard to beat too.

 

If you were using energy free heat mechs like dual sorrows or triple magma builds, you most likely would have won. If you were using a hugger, then yeah, you might have lost. If you use a physical mechs with premium dual modules, you be likely to win, if it's a regular rounded physical mech with no premium modules, then yeah, you would have lost. If you were using energy free physical, then you would have won most likely again. And energy is the rarest element in top ranks, especially above rank 3. Energy mechs are easy to beat if you have new premium dual modules or are running a energy free build. Saying that they are hard to beat in the current meta is a joke.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Shoultz262 (see edit history)

[Liam.M.Lucas_2020]

13 hours ago, Shoultz262 said:

If you were using energy free heat mechs like dual sorrows or triple magma builds, you most likely would have won. If you were using a hugger, then yeah, you might have lost. If you use a physical mechs with premium dual modules, you be likely to win, if it's a regular rounded physical mech with no premium modules, then yeah, you would have lost. If you were using energy free physical, then you would have won most likely again. And energy is the rarest element in top ranks, especially above rank 3. Energy mechs are easy to beat if you have new premium dual modules or are running a energy free build. Saying that they are hard to beat in the current meta is a joke.

First of all, I don't know what any of this has to do with energy mechs rolling high damage, I never complained about energy mechs beating me either. And the claim at the end is just simply false and i've proved it to you multiple times before. Buy hey, here's some more proof, why not.

 

This one is actually second place out of online users:

 

 

I could go on.

Jiyoon and sumire are also in the top ten for offlines.

 

Buffing these things would cause lots of frustrations as its already hard to not get drained when you have 800 energy. Buffing them will lead to more counters, which it seems the game is trying to get rid of with the introduction of the combined modules. 

And to be honest, yes, I do see that there is less energy mechs than heat and physical but thats because of how easy it is to make energy free physical and heat mechs (which most heat and physical mechs are in top ranks)

With energy mechs, you still need the energy to run it, which has made some people, including me, steer away from the whole element itself. 

 

 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Liam.M.Lucas_2020 (see edit history)

[Shoultz262]

2 hours ago, Liam.M.Lucas_2020 said:

First of all, I don't know what any of this has to do with energy mechs rolling high damage, I never complained about energy mechs beating me either. And the claim at the end is just simply false and i've proved it to you multiple times before. Buy hey, here's some more proof, why not.

 

This one is actually second place out of online users:

 

 

I could go on.

Jiyoon and sumire are also in the top ten for offlines.

 

Buffing these things would cause lots of frustrations as its already hard to not get drained when you have 800 energy. Buffing them will lead to more counters, which it seems the game is trying to get rid of with the introduction of the combined modules. 

And to be honest, yes, I do see that there is less energy mechs than heat and physical but thats because of how easy it is to make energy free physical and heat mechs (which most heat and physical mechs are in top ranks)

With energy mechs, you still need the energy to run it, which has made some people, including me, steer away from the whole element itself. 

 

 

 

They won't be able to get medals anyway. You already made this point.

And yes, energy requires more brain than heat or physical.

And the combined modules actually creates more counters because energy is the worst element now because of them, so not a lot of people play it, hence so many counters towards heat and physical.

And of course and you can still get drained with 800 cap if you have low regen or don't play smart. Part of this is already on the valiant thread, so I'm not going to bother arguing with you since you're so against energy anyway.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Shoultz262 (see edit history)

[CDR_Xavier]

On 1/2/2021 at 11:53 PM, L4K3 said:

when a R12 gets  better rewards in a week than a R1 does in 3 months.

Maybe to cheese the rank 12 and carrot the R1?

Ima drop down to rank 20 immediately lol

[SawzAll]

58 minutes ago, Liam.M.Lucas_2020 said:

And to be honest, yes, I do see that there is less energy mechs than heat and physical but thats because of how easy it is to make energy free physical and heat mechs (which most heat and physical mechs are in top ranks)

 

14 hours ago, Shoultz262 said:

Energy mechs are easy to beat if you have new premium dual modules or are running a energy free build. Saying that they are hard to beat in the current meta is a joke.

That's what everyone's point is: energy might need a buff as a whole.  There's an energy player among the top ten arena players, now, but for a very long time there was not.

And even the best energy config, some have accused it of "falling away" after the dual valiants are out of shots.  But I could be wrong.   (It seems fine in WU, and I'm not rank 1-5....)

[Liam.M.Lucas_2020]

I agree with shoultz that energy just simply takes more skill to use. 

And now there are 3 energy mechs out of the online top ten and 3 in the offlines. 

[Androphonia]

On 1/1/2021 at 11:28 PM, BossParody said:

Okay, so I want honest opinions on this. Not opinions on if you like it, but honest opinions on if this could help make rebalancing the game easier. Okay, here we go:

1. Heat and energy mods could be nerfed

before you immediately disagree, please read through my reasoning. I see lots of people coming at phys and saying that individual items need a nerf, which is true in some cases. However, a simpler solution to finding exactly how much to nerf/buff every item in the game, what if we just increased the effectiveness of heat and energy mechs to a state where they can also be competitive at r1?

 

2. Make phys armour breakers require energy

I find that phys mechs in general rip right through most energy mechs, specifically the current 4.2k meta that runs at least 1 (often times 2) armour breaker. Against en mechs which usually have lower hp, it’s quite hard to compete. 
 

3. Make skill and time more important, not just money spent.

I believe that an easy way to do this would be to increase the amount of buff gained from divining an item. For extremely p2w players, they are able to obtain op items much more easily, and quickly implement them in their own builds and easily outclass players that have played for years, within sometimes a short few months. Fortunately, the greatest difference between these players lies in their divine items. If the divine tier upgrade was boosted to a point where it was more helpful, it would give experienced players an edge, and make it harder for p2w players to compete at top ranks immediately. 
 

4. Buff E+ items

This change would mean that those items you worked hard to upgrade in the early days would no longer be useless. The biggest benefit to this is that we would be able to see much more variation in arena, and make the game more interesting! 
 

 

Okay, I may have oversimplified some of the issues that I roughly addressed here, but I’d love to hear everyone’s opinions on each of these points if possible! The goal isn’t necessarily for my ideas to all be implemented, more to discuss possible solutions to help improve this game that we all love. 
 

Cheers!

Alex aka BossParody

I don't agree with nerfing modules, sure that will balance top ranks, but what about low ranks? Do you expect new players to live with less than 100 heat cap? They don't have as many resources, and this depends on how much you nerf modules, but this will put new players at a serious disadvantage against heat and energy mechs

[Shoultz262]

1 hour ago, ChooseGeno said:

I don't agree with nerfing modules, sure that will balance top ranks, but what about low ranks? Do you expect new players to live with less than 100 heat cap? They don't have as many resources, and this depends on how much you nerf modules, but this will put new players at a serious disadvantage against heat and energy mechs

The regular epic modules don't need to be nerfed, the premium dual heat+energy modules do, but yes, I agree.

[Shoultz262]

On 1/5/2021 at 6:05 PM, L4K3 said:

Correction.

You can do that with pretty much an EMP (E-M weapon),a Malice Beam/Hysteria (E-M weapons) and even a Snack (E-M Drone),or better (or worse),a Face Shocker (a E-M drone,too).So no,it's just so insanely easy achievable.

Yeah,but just in case you're still new here and don't understand the mechanics.

In the case of a two Valiant hits (which is ''BETTER'') than ONE EMP,ONE EMP only takes ONE action point,so thus that 400 (''WORSE'' than 2 Val hits) can turn into 6-700 ''quite'' easily.

Please,research a little before arguing about this.I both hate and love the most to deal with you,biased people.

Highly agreed.

Yeah,mate,WHAT a Re-WOW-LIEF!

Good thing every single mech is energy-free,almost!!Like literally,there's at least 20 of them at every rank,from 25 upwards.

Like energy-free are so very very easy to build.You can build them with anything and that's what makes them so common that EMP is literally ouch-chew PFFFT useless.And the game like guarantees you energy-free weapons,like 15 of them a month.And also an en-free torso and like 40 Plat Plates.You get all of that like a few times every day if you farm enough,so yeah,easy,heck yeah buddy,keep talking.

Look,you've eraned yourself some respect for talking my language,but one thing's for sure.

EMP,even though it's indeed balanced as it is,is unfair by default.Like it isn't the stats making it a ruin,but rather the idea itself.

The idea that it may be quite a fun and devastating factor against energy mechs,as where it is literally the no-reason-drain,brainless,insta-energy-death to phys and heats.

Because of that reason,it's f***ing broken.Although this tiny little HUGE detail is overlooked for completely understandable factors.

Look,I have an energy-free mech so leave it as it is;I couldn't care less.But I still can't stand the idea that it's god damn unfair.Poor dudes getting drained without the chance to fight back,as in the case of phys and heat against it.

Literally insta-drain,insta-lose and insta-quit for what?For a fault in designing the actual balance of this thing?Hell naw,mate.

Since you're bringing this up again, let's use math to calculate the drain. EMP is around 400 drain, 410 if divined. If using malice, that's another 170 drain which now has more drain than hysteria, hot flash is also around 170 drain. Snack is about 60 drain while faceshocker is around 95 drain. Together in best case scenario without valiant or premium drones, it's around 675 drain, which is kinda far from 750. And there's a very easy energy free build to make that's non premium, dual desos. Just literally slap on 2 desos, a repulser, and either a recoiler or basalt dissolver and you would still have a decent dual deso. And now that windigo has been buffed, it's the best non premium torso so you don't really need a premium torso.

Plus now that everyone is either running high regen builds (at least over 300+) or even higher stats due to dual mods, energy free phys or meta swoop heat hugger now, really no point to talk about emp anymore.