knarf

This conversation can be found in multiple locations. To siphon the conversation down to a more condensed location please visit: to comment and read the on going discussion. Also, let's keep this civil people. Thank you

This topic is found in multiple locations. To siphon the conversation into a more condensed area, please see this post: to view the conversation and discussions. Thank you.

I cannot believe that a discussion of this subject needs to be had with a moderator. But, here we go. I hope this does not come off as disrespectful to you or the leadership of this game or gaming platform. Let's start with the most egregious of this response. "....bit [d]umb that people are making such a big fuss out of it as you can always just play multiplayer later as you only need to get 5 wins per day for maximum rewards." The simple fact that you feel it perfectly acceptable to advocate other players to simply play at another time to avoid this kind of game play, not only shows and points out that there is a problem that no one really wants to identify. But also that players have to adjust their play schedule to avoid such issues. While I am no game owner or developer, basic logic suggests that any game owner or developer would want as many players, in their game, playing their game, as often as possible and at all times of the day and/or night. This attitude (while from a moderator) does not strike me as good business sense nor inclusive/inviting of the community. Is this the kind of environment you want to portray? Next topic, TOS 2.2 states "You agree to participate in any conversation, contribution or conduct in a friendly and courteous manner..." Is tanking ones rank to farm lower ranked players "contribution or conduct" that is considered to be "friendly or courteous"? Is tanking one's rank to gain greater clan rewards "contribution" to the game in a "friendly or courteous" manner? Is tanking one's rank to get matched up with lower rank clans in WAR's considered to be a positive "contribution" to the game or considered to be "friendly or courteous"? I mean, if it is, then the gaming community needs to know this for transparency sake. Next topic, TOS 2.2.1 states "Participate in any activity within Services for the sole purpose of gaining Game Resources, without participating in actual gameplay...." I understand where you are coming from, but I highlight these words for a specific reason. I look at the word "services" as indicating any and all services that are provided to players within the context of Supermechs. If I am wrong in understanding this, please forgive me. I understand that this can be constituted as a "grey area" and I am by no means arguing with you on this subject, but I am going to question it. The term "game play" is what can put this whole subject into the "grey area". What is game play? Would you or could you consider someone purposefully tanking their rank to farm for easy wins "actual game play"? Is such a player, playing the game as it was intended? That is the whole reason why I used the term "exploitation of game mechanics". If this sort of game play was never intended by the developers or owners of this game, then the term "exploitation" is accurately used and such players could be classified as not "participating in actual game play" because such play was never intended in the first place. Such an argument could be also used regarding those that outright cheat. But we are not talking about cheaters here, we are talking about those that are using a game mechanic in a malicious fashion to gain game resources. If this is an acceptable means of game play, then we all should know about this so we all can benefit from such game play. Because such players are "gaining game resources" without playing the game as it was intended. That is my take on this. Next topic, TOS 2.2.2 states "Participate in any activity meant for fraud or to encourage other Users to convey funds..." I have experienced a number of players who have admitted that their clan requires them to achieve X number of wins each week so that the clan itself can reap the benefits of said clan rewards from X number of arena wins. Would tanking one's rank to generate a number of wins not be considered exploiting game mechanics to gain resources (IE: tokens)? Would that not be considered fraud? Is that not gaming the system (loophole) as a whole through exploitation of the system itself? I feel it safe to say that we all understand that Supermechs is not a large game and that Grato does not have deep pockets with heavy financial backing form multiple sources. Therefore, there is not a huge team of people working to work out every bug, kink, exploit or loophole within the game. Passionate players have to take up the reigns to help out the few developers by bringing up such issues. If this is not considered to be an issue, and my questioning of such game play is not welcomed, please let me know and I will consider this subject viewed by leadership and disregarded. And I will move on from it. I thank you for your time Knarf

This is correct, until the player that lowers their rank to farm easy wins. In the Arena, clans are rewarded for the number of wins they receive (example: 200 combined clan wins gets every clan member 10 tokens) This is the true definition of a game exploit. Furthermore, a clan rank is determined by the overall rank of all of its clan members. This is used to match clans up within WARS. Tanking ones rank will move the overall clan ranking down so they can have an easier match in a WAR, therefore gaining easy wins and WAR win which gives out rewards. So, this behavior does violate TOS rules: 2.2, 2.2.1 and 2.2.2 I would suggest reporting these players. You can do so through the game settings (gear icon top right of screen -> Support) The more reports of these actions the greater chance this issue can be fixed.

This is becoming a much bigger problem as the months go on. This is a game exploitation as these players are purposefully tanking their ranks in order to gain easier wins. Win counts go towards clan rewards so these individuals are farming easy wins to reap the benefits of the rewards given to all of the clan. Furthermore, these individuals, when lowering their ranks, brings the overall clan rank down which puts the clan in an easier WAR with another clan. Again, gaining an easy win within a WAR generates a reward. This is classic exploitation of game mechanics. This goes against TOS Sections; 2.2, 2.2.1 and 2.2.2 I would suggest reporting these players. You can do so through the game settings (gear icon top right of screen -> Support) The more reports of these actions the greater chance this issue can be fixed.

This is becoming a much bigger problem as the months go on. This is a game exploitation as these players are purposefully tanking their ranks in order to gain easier wins. Win counts go towards clan rewards so these individuals are farming easy wins to reap the benefits of the rewards given to all of the clan. Furthermore, these individuals, when lowering their ranks, brings the overall clan rank down which puts the clan in an easier WAR with another clan. Again, gaining an easy win within an WAR generates a reward. This is classic exploitation of game mechanics. I would suggest reporting these players. You can do so through the game settings (gear icon top right of screen -> Support) The more reports of these actions the greater chance this issue can be fixed. **NOTE: for the individuals that commented "getting good" or "try winning" these comments are not helping the situation as those that are exploiting the game are preventing others from winning or getting good. Not to mention the fact that everyone progresses at different rates and everyone has to go through the same levels and growing pains. So the comments of "get good" or "try winning" is not only subjective, but also irrelevant to the subject. **NOTE: to the individual that said it is not a violation of the TOS. Actually it is. Sections; 2.2, 2.2.1 and 2.2.2

@Dark conon mech Thank you for answering the question. That helps. @iSwarky Well, I have a little over 11k tokens available that I have been saving up. I have been saving them up for any big offer for black Friday or year end deal. The biggest issue though is that I have really bad luck with these premium packs. I have come to the conclusion that they are simply not worth it because of drop rate on items are quite poor, at least for me. At the same time, it is difficult getting any good gear if you do not pony up and get the premium packs. So, it is a catch twenty two. The question always is, when is a good time to spend tokens? The answer, there is really never a good time.

If I have the tokens, could I purchase two of these limited time offers??

A topic similar to this, but more to the point of exploits.

@Fordekash Hitting the "quit" button does not take much effort nor does it take much time either. Not quite sure what you are talking about here. Sorry @DefinitelyNotTrophy While that would be a great stop gap for future tankers, it does not deal with those that have already tanked. Just yesterday I was matched up with someone who was rank 12, over 2800hp and all divine gear. This player could easily stay at that rank and mop the floor with the opponents this person faces. Win some matches, tank the rank, rinse and repeat. @No. Yep, I deal with those all the time. I deal with others that get one or two shots in, then quit. I get those that just sit and wait for the time to run out. I get those that instantly quit. I get those that kick the crap out of me and before they kill me off, quit the game. Clearly this is perfectly acceptable to Supermechs and Grato Games.

Hi Oki, Thank you for the response and the thought you put into everything you said. I am going to be honest with you, I think you are commenting out of your league here. You constantly refereed to very high ranks 1-5, which I cannot comment on the environment there. Having players dripping with a full set of divine weapons, over 3k HP and over 700 capacity in both heat and energy and over 300 cooling/recharge on each of their mechs, fighting rank 12-9 players is simply unacceptable. You also mentioned that people do not have a "3rd mech" or that they "wanted to test/build weapons up" and they do so in the lower ranks. Both reasons, I am not sure why or how they can be acceptable to you or anyone else. Developing gear on lower ranked players? So I guess with that sort of logic, I get a new item and I should just tank my rank to say 20 and "develop that item" on those poor souls. Is that acceptable? Not having a third mech is clearly poor game management on the part of the player. I have been as far as rank 8 and my third mech was not called upon. So why are these VERY powerful players, fighting in rank 12-9 instead of in the higher ranks? ( I do not know when a third mech is required in the arena). Also, all of these players have a third mech, so again, what is the issue? Most importantly is that you could not comment on the simple fact that these players are exploiting the game to their and their clans' benefit at the expense of the lower ranks players. The whole idea of the ranking system is to match equally skilled/geared players with equally skilled/geared players. Tanking one's rank for any reason completely defeats the purpose of the ranking system. And because there is a reward system associated with arena wins, it is a win, win situation for the player who tanks their rank and farms on the lower ranked players. Again, how is this acceptable? I am sorry sir, while you put a great deal of effort into your response to me, your response read more like a defense to bad behavior rather than explaining to me how these players are not exploiting the game, taking advantage of a system within the game, or how it is perfectly acceptable to farm lower ranked players, at their expense. What is worse about this is that not a single game developer, game leader, forum admin or anyone associated with Supermechs has commented on this subject. Is this sort of exploit perfectly acceptable to them? If it is, I will be telling my entire clan to tank their ranks so we can start racking up some significant wins and prizes too. Knarf

To note, I have already sent in a support ticket on this issue asking how best to go about dealing with these specific players and I have not received any response in over two months. (Ticket #172706) In the last year, there has been a growing issue with players tanking their ranks to gain easy wins. A number of players have admitted that their Clan is requiring a certain number of arena wins per player to accomplish specific clan goals. As we all know, the more a clan achieves victories in the arena the better the clan reward gets (lvl1, Random MIX box, lvl 2. 20k coin, lvl 3. rare power unit, lvl 4 10 tokens). This is a direct definition of an exploit. Players, mostly with divine gear, are playing in arena ranks 13-9 and sometimes even lower. With the level of gear they have, they simply have no business being in such ranks, but they are playing in such ranks in order to achieve the easy wins and therefor add to the total clan arena wins. Is this acceptable in Supermechs? Is it acceptable for very highly geared (and high ranked) players, tanking their ranks to farm wins off of lower ranked players? While I will admit, I have no evidence to support my claim. The point of submitting a support ticket was to ask how I could go about reporting or gathering information to help Supermechs with this issue. With no response, I have had no guidance in supporting this claim. What I can point out is that there are a number of matches that players would immediately forfeit the match. Unfortunately, if a "turn" is not taken, the match is not recorded to be reviewed. So many of these "rank tankers" are not able to be tracked from a players perspective. Other players will put in a turn or two, then end the match. Looking at their match history, they have several matches where they purposely end the match prematurely. If I have stepped out of bounds with the creation of this thread, I do apologize. I, by no means, want to anger anyone here. What I do want is to point out the issue and to have a fix looked into and deployed so fair play can be achieved and the exploit be fixed. Knarfis

It was a wasted, hard earned 1000 tokens out the window for me. I only received one item of worth, but honestly I did not really need said item. I totally understand that it is a gamble and 1000 tokens gives you the chance to play. As the saying goes, "you cannot win if you do not play". But as a F2P player, it is quite deflating when nothing of real value comes from the hard work of hording tokens and spending said tokens on such a gamble with dismal results.

I would go with this idea as well. Or Simply have a store that is available all the time with ONLY Legendary items for sale, for tokens only. The pricing would have to be a bit on the high side, say 1500 per item so that it will help those that are F2P and have some pretty good gear but are only missing a few items here and there and would also cost the P2P players heavily too. Also, to keep the abuse down, the store opens up only after level 100. Edit: One more item to mention is to create a limit of say a player can only "purchase" 3 or 5 of these items. Again, the idea is to give the chance to get an item that will complete your mech build out. Putting a limit on the number of these items will also help reduce abuse. The only reason something like this is being suggested is because Legendary items are already extremely difficult to get, their drop rates are horrible and when sales come along for premium packs, it is such a huge gamble with very little return and a great deal of frustration. As a F2P player, I hoard my Tokens for those times when super deals come along. But, like the recent premium box sale, I dropped my 1000 tokens and received absolutely nothing of worth back and the feeling of all that hard work, wasted away. That sort of feeling does not help retain me as a player, or anyone else for that matter. I put my time in and built my mechs up pretty good, but there are just these few little things that I would like to have that are hard to come by that would make my mech perfect for the goal I set them up for. I hope this makes sense and I hope this could possibly go through. It is not only a money making opportunity for Grato, but also a great opportunity to create happiness amongst the player base and help with player retention. Knarf