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Balance Update 03-01-2020


Alexander

15,786 views

Hi Pilots, 

We've prepared a balance update that will go live a bit over 2 hours from time of writing with the following changes:

Torsos

Windigo
Epic
base HP 309 -> 329
Legendary
base HP 480 -> 580
Mythical
base HP 694 -> 825
phys Res 22 -> 30

Naga
Epic
base HP 309 -> 329
Legendary
base HP 480 -> 580
Mythical
base HP 694 -> 825
phys Res 22 -> 30

Molten Platinum Vest
Legendary
base HP 480 -> 580
Mythical
base HP 694 -> 815
phys Res 44 -> 55

Lightning Platinum Vest
Legendary
base HP 480 -> 580
Mythical
base HP 694 -> 815
phys Res 44 -> 55

Nightmare
Epic
base HP 277 -> 297
Legendary
base HP 430 -> 490
Mythical
base HP 621 -> 775
phys Res 22 -> 30
Weapons

Frantic Brute
Epic
heat cost 18 -> 23
energy cost 4 -> 9
Legendary
heat cost 32 -> 42
energy cost 6 -> 16
Mythical
heat cost 50 -> 70
energy cost 10 -> 30
min damage 52 -> 152
max damage 482 -> 382
Frantic Flame
Mythical
min damage 58 -> 108
max damage 359 -> 309
Frantic Lightning
Mythical
min damage 58 -> 108
max damage 344 -> 294
Malice Beam
Legendary
energy damage 64 -> 74
Mythical
energy damage 94 -> 104
Drones

Swoop
Legendary
min damage 28 -> 33
max damage 45 -> 50
heat damage 30 -> 35
Mythical
min damage 42 -> 65
max damage 68 -> 91
heat damage 44 -> 70

Anguish
Legendary
energy damage 25 -> 23
energy regen damage 4 -> 5
weight 30 -> 28
Mythical
energy damage 36 -> 33
energy regen damage 7 -> 10
weight 30 -> 28

Thank you everyone for your patience with us! We hope this update will pave the way to a more balanced game where every item you get feels like it may be useful to you. We intend to update an additional 5-10 items late jan, with an internal deadline at mid feb. 

 

We'll evaluate this update in the next few weeks and apply any needed additional nerfs or buffs to these items based on that. Please keep in mind though, they are intended to be stronger than their former peers, the idea was to bring them up to the level of the very best items in the game right now, not to the level of the average item. The other items will get the same treatment over time. 

If it turns out they're still a class beneath the best items for their purpose, they'll receive another buff soon. If it turns out they completely replace the best items, they'll get a corrective nerf soon. They should be a choice, you should feel like you can build a top build with both these items and the current best items. The difference between premium and non premium items should exist, but not be so major as to make premiums not worth it. The difference between C-M and E-M should exist, but not be so major as to make a C-M lose every single matchup to an E-M. 

 

Hope that makes things clear!

 

As for the reasonings: 

Various torsos were buffed to account for the stronger physical drones, the larger HP going around the meta and the current meta dominance of the so-lovingly dubbed "Monkeys". More will follow. Thank you @Lord Gorgon and @SawzAll for creating in depth topics suggesting broad balance changes and more specific ones as well. 

Frantic Brute was reworked to be less random and have slightly more cost attached. The other frantics were made a bit less random but otherwise remain the same. Thank you everyone who suggested this on the old forums, some a little bit too passionate (*cough* lake *cough*) and of course the late besty. 

Malice Beam was given a slight buff as it was overshadowed by other items in its class. It should be roughly on par now. 

Swoop was given a large buff to make this "useless" drone into a heat-generating powerhouse for the right build. Make no mistake - it might not be targeting cooldown, but with the right setup, the little swoop is going to wreck some builds. Thank you @CyberRodrigo for shining a light on this item on the forum. 

Anguish was given a minor rework and buff to focus it on its unique selling point (hitting the energy regeneration) and make it feel a little more powerful. 

Thank you everyone for your countless suggestions, advices and opinions. I tried reading them all but it's hard sometimes.

Thank you to the Volunteer Balance Team for taking their time discussing it with us and helping us ( @Elcent and @CleverName with their Spreadsheet mumbo-jumbo, @Lord Gorgon for harsh opinions and @Purific, @MatiasKurt, @That1Guy, @DarkJailu, @Raul, @Fluffeh, @Zylok for valuable inputs, sorry if I forgot someone who contributed!)

 

We'll release the change on the countdown ends. Please forward it to your friends and please keep in mind that if you find something very OP about this, it probably won't last for very long. And if you find it's insufficient, there's a good chance we'll buff it again soon.

 

Good luck experimenting, pilots!

149 Comments


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1 hour ago, Grosboss said:

hé alex ,is it canceled or what?

 

 

Alex said in the discord server that the next update is planned to be released ideally before the next 3v3 season, so in about a week or so.

image.png.a83ddbf8c12f075894a72956ce459855.png

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12 hours ago, Shoultz262 said:

Alex a déclaré dans le serveur Discord que la prochaine mise à jour devrait être publiée idéalement avant la prochaine saison 3v3, donc dans environ une semaine.

image.png.a83ddbf8c12f075894a72956ce459855.png

yes a long time ago, already passed 3 vs 3

game does not progress. 

nothing good...

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On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2021 at 10:43 AM, Sparks said:

Thank you for balancing frantic 🙂

Yep. Also thanks For Frantic Brothers

On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2021 at 10:59 AM, That1Guy said:

Absolute poggers. Please report anything if you find something to be far too unbalanced.

Have to Balanced the Greedy Drone + Lazy Falcon and Brothers

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What balance you guys are looking for?

Takes time to analyze the arena after a change or two and see the effect. With the tinny change made last time the game changed a lot and have more balance since can see more energy and heat mechs around and with the most recent items from TF there still a lot of progress to do. Every tinny change skew a lot the current arena condition and for new players changes like that create a lot of issues since need to modify progress costing a lot to them. 

Any future change need to be well planned before create another mess. Few premium items require a micro buff to have few more options to use them because there is no use of the items now. Old players playing since 2017 etc can deal with changes since the weapon maybe are in their arsenal and can make quick change but others can suffer a lot. 

If you have a particular item for your personal benefit, that won't work. It is the overall picture. 🤔

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Why doesn't have any balance, I was happy when know in Feb will have one, but it's nothing except base and arena gold

I want item buff/nerf not it

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The game it should be out of balance to build different mechs to balancing them. Why so much nerf and buff ? No one will be happy since shift about what the other have. If adjust to one then the other player gets angry. 

Oh well, I will stick to make parts like I do and play noob. 

giphy.gif&ehk=AXmueoBHpqck2u4vloCUKY2Wkm

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, OKI DOKI said:

The game it should be out of balance to build different mechs to balancing them. Why so much nerf and buff ? No one will be happy since shift about what the other have. If adjust to one then the other player gets angry. 

Oh well, I will stick to make parts like I do and play noob. 

giphy.gif&ehk=AXmueoBHpqck2u4vloCUKY2Wkm

 

 

 

Why not new items for new meta? 🙂

But clever name can't get em cuz DO U WANT TO HIM UNBEATABLE LIKE B4?

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17 minutes ago, Soviet Union mech said:

Why not new items for new meta? 🙂

But clever name can't get em cuz DO U WANT TO HIM UNBEATABLE LIKE B4?

If players are asking for rebalance now and keep adding more parts will be out of balance again because takes time to understand the change in the arena. The numbers can be one thing but reality in pvp and players current capabilities differ. 

I like the idea to have others new weapons but let face that just few players have massive capabilities or better say massive inventory in the sense to have enough parts to make 3 mechs identical by masses and the ability to get the necessary gold to make them to sustain changes or go fast for new changes.

I do not think in one player or two, I think in the full arena. I can buy or get items if I really want to go in that way but it is not my way instead I like to farm and see a basic progress to not get bored having all fast. 

Now, as a player who play for fun and test not even for rank, I have to face all ranks around and can tell that nerfing or buffing parts without proper understanding of the changes many will suffer in the game and in particular the free to play because they normally cannot adjust to fast changes.  

Sure like I said, few items need a tinny buff because are premium and are worthless at this point and just are good now to use them as meat which should not happen but constant changes in the game create lots of issues so need to observe and that takes time. 

Sure new parts will be cool but how many people have enough inventory to request new parts when barely can build something with what the game currently have. Yes, I want portals with new items like many here and in particular older players since they have a lot of parts around and with a new item maybe they will improve their game. 

Anyway, I just make parts for fun and entertainment.🧑‍🌾

 

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many items are not respected

put back as before, traditional weapon ,distance 2-4 no energy

image.png.9b7c29c24f2323314615522e4e4c7fdd.pngimage.png.fbdda48d0f055a9492cd1fe2e550817b.pngimage.png.15d1b53dd28ef22cce95046ba83a0f88.png

lack item heat add now

image.png.44e4b83c3456a63320b053addf6c6444.pngimage.png.4ecb71401f42ea5578bb807367249d22.png

heat and energy dmg even measured so i see heat dmg very low.

normally, weapons legendary  superior that epic?

so I see completely mixed up

image.png.ecb7234b121eb30b1bd8a1fb4262029d.pngimage.png.b116cca980c71d1ae5c8f833708cfd29.png

......etc 

image.png

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On 2/25/2021 at 3:07 AM, Grosboss said:

we are february 25, still no change.

now I no longer believe super mechs future.
I see Alex is same way mohadib

Wow, that didn't take much.

And you ignored quite a few good things Alex did to come to that conclusion.

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8 minutes ago, Grosboss said:

many items are not respected

put back as before, traditional weapon ,distance 2-4 no energy

image.png.9b7c29c24f2323314615522e4e4c7fdd.pngimage.png.fbdda48d0f055a9492cd1fe2e550817b.pngimage.png.15d1b53dd28ef22cce95046ba83a0f88.png

lack item heat add now

 

 

.

normally, weapons legendary  superior that epic?

so I see completely mixed up

image.png.ecb7234b121eb30b1bd8a1fb4262029d.pngimage.png.b116cca980c71d1ae5c8f833708cfd29.png

......etc 

image.png

put back as before, traditional weapon ,distance 2-4 no energy

do you mean how used to be in legacy time?

 

lack item heat add now

I see. 

 

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18 minutes ago, SawzAll said:

Wow, that didn't take much.

And you ignored quite a few good things Alex did to come to that conclusion.

oh it's always the same, SM is progressing only 2% so 98% never done

19 minutes ago, OKI DOKI said:

put back as before, traditional weapon ,distance 2-4 no energy

do you mean how used to be in legacy time?

 

lack item heat add now

I see. 

 

yes, as before 2017

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24 minutes ago, SawzAll said:

Wow, that didn't take much.

And you ignored quite a few good things Alex did to come to that conclusion.

you are like a piano that always plays the same note 🤣🤣🤣

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It so happens that Tactic-Gato's strategy remains the same. The strategy is to have a lot of junk legy's to decrease the chances of getting VIP items. That way they can sell more. It's a way for people to buy more. They always put a player in the showcase, like a fish in a fish tank with a meta-build for all to see. If the player is not very good they give him some extra advantages so that he wins and stays up and well visible. Sometimes the player isn't aware that they are using him, as they did with Rising and Canopy and other times the player-fish lends himself to the circus, as they are doing with CleverName. And then everyone wants to have the same thing that that one has and the one who can buy and buy. Whoever refuses to be fooled is condemned. If the meta is phys and you insist on playing with heat or energy, you're screwed (at least for a while).

Si...The strategy is to generate the need to buy to obtain the fashion item and then admins fill the boxes with dead items, so that the VIP item is more difficult to obtain. Nothing new, nobody has invented anything here. Now, the players who have been in the game for a few years, we already know that this is the case. It is crap, but they have always done it and in some way we have naturalized it.

What isn't understood is why they made promises that were not kept. There was no need to tell people that updates would be made in February, creating a false expectation. An impulsive and totally irrational attitude.

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On 5/18/2021 at 7:25 AM, Grosboss said:

oh it's always the same, SM is progressing only 2% so 98% never done

Yeah it's not lost on me that you made up stats that support your negative view point.

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On 5/18/2021 at 3:18 PM, Nefertary Meriten-Mut said:

It so happens that Tactic-Gato's strategy remains the same. The strategy is to have a lot of junk legy's to decrease the chances of getting VIP items. That way they can sell more. It's a way for people to buy more. They always put a player in the showcase, like a fish in a fish tank with a meta-build for all to see. If the player is not very good they give him some extra advantages so that he wins and stays up and well visible. Sometimes the player isn't aware that they are using him, as they did with Rising and Canopy and other times the player-fish lends himself to the circus, as they are doing with CleverName. And then everyone wants to have the same thing that that one has and the one who can buy and buy. Whoever refuses to be fooled is condemned. If the meta is phys and you insist on playing with heat or energy, you're screwed (at least for a while).

Si...The strategy is to generate the need to buy to obtain the fashion item and then admins fill the boxes with dead items, so that the VIP item is more difficult to obtain. Nothing new, nobody has invented anything here. Now, the players who have been in the game for a few years, we already know that this is the case. It is crap, but they have always done it and in some way we have naturalized it.

What isn't understood is why they made promises that were not kept. There was no need to tell people that updates would be made in February, creating a false expectation. An impulsive and totally irrational attitude.

I noticed that too. It will probably be due to the fact that at that time everyone or almost everyone still trusted what Alexander wrote. Now, with hindsight, it is obvious that he made it up and said total bullshit. Maybe he's having a good time because he said in February but didn't say what year... 🤣

During that time, we understood that Battle Dawn and everything GATO was working on would either never be completed or would take an infinite amount of time to complete. Therefore, the question arises, what does Alexander actually live on? It certainly won't be from SM. So he only has SM as a hobby, which he enjoys, because of writing with children. He naively thinks that this is the real community. He also naively thinks that writing with Alexander is what the community needs. But when someone is "almighty", he succumbs to this self-delusion.

I wanted to write for people to vote:

When will we get an upgrade?

A) this year

B) in 2023

C) concurrently with the Battle Dawn upgrade (around 2094)

D) this game is timeless and does not need to be modified

But then I thought it was pointless… 🖖

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1 hour ago, Jesper said:

I noticed that too. It will probably be due to the fact that at that time everyone or almost everyone still trusted what Alexander wrote. Now, with hindsight, it is obvious that he made it up and said total bullshit. Maybe he's having a good time because he said in February but didn't say what year... 🤣

During that time, we understood that Battle Dawn and everything GATO was working on would either never be completed or would take an infinite amount of time to complete. Therefore, the question arises, what does Alexander actually live on? It certainly won't be from SM. So he only has SM as a hobby, which he enjoys, because of writing with children. He naively thinks that this is the real community. He also naively thinks that writing with Alexander is what the community needs. But when someone is "almighty", he succumbs to this self-delusion.

I wanted to write for people to vote:

When will we get an upgrade?

A) this year

B) in 2023

C) concurrently with the Battle Dawn upgrade (around 2094)

D) this game is timeless and does not need to be modified

But then I thought it was pointless… 🖖

do not know. for sure need some small adds like L250 open to 1000 to have more progress and every 50 or 75 levels a nice grant of weapon or pick item in need. It was my thing and for 2 years waiting and is boring. use of silver coins options enhancing something else in the factory etc or exchange for gold relics or anything come to players mind that add sense. Sure, we need now to go back to portal and start to release few weapons I will say by October or so been 2 years. For pay to win, let's start to sale some items as before good weapons and of course some in the mid-range for starters low tokens. Few more tokens for starters so can motivate them to push. Also, there is low motivation with the top players and lower participation on the game. I can see that on my acc and is a lot lower of what I can see when I started.  Game is fine but need few things to make players a bit happier but also it is a business so no perfect world. 🤔🤷‍♂️🙂

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55 minutes ago, OKI DOKI said:

do not know. for sure need some small adds like L250 open to 1000 to have more progress and every 50 or 75 levels a nice grant of weapon or pick item in need. It was my thing and for 2 years waiting and is boring. use of silver coins options enhancing something else in the factory etc or exchange for gold relics or anything come to players mind that add sense. Sure, we need now to go back to portal and start to release few weapons I will say by October or so been 2 years. For pay to win, let's start to sale some items as before good weapons and of course some in the mid-range for starters low tokens. Few more tokens for starters so can motivate them to push. Also, there is low motivation with the top players and lower participation on the game. I can see that on my acc and is a lot lower of what I can see when I started.  Game is fine but need few things to make players a bit happier but also it is a business so no perfect world. 🤔🤷‍♂️🙂

So decide C) or D) 🤣😂

 

I more or less agree with what you wrote. How about we suggest to Alexander that we buy the game. And finally, something will start to be done about it. We can buy the game outright and pay someone to work on it. Or we will pay GATO and Alexander will work for us. I think he's a pretty good programmer, but he needs a firm hand over him. So that instead of writing and watching anime, he also works... 😛

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7 hours ago, Jesper said:

How about we suggest to Alexander that we buy the game.

There are a few potential problems with this:

1) You would still need to pay someone to be the CEO/CFO even if everyone bought the game.  For instance, Fender Musical Instruments is also employee-owned and they have an executive team.

2) You would need players with enough cash to buy out the shares and do this.  I don't think there are enough of these types.

3) You would need players to understand that buying shares and being part of the employee ownership program DOES NOT MEAN they get tokens or other in-game perks except maybe cosmetics.  Because if everyone comes into it with an entitlement attitude, everyone will just feed off the company until it dies.

4) You would need to then organize some sort of effort to hire programmers that are trustworthy.  Have fun with that.  Action script (Flash) is basically extinct.

5) You would need to buy out the company shares first, and then afterwards move the company towards employee ownership.  That's not just going to happen overnight.

6) You would need to do so before the real owner of the game (hint, not Alex) gets wind of it and folds the company.  We've never met this person: what if he doesn't want to give up SM?

7) It would need to be an international company.

8 )  You'd all need to be employees for it to be employee owned.  I think what you mean is player-owned.

9) You'd need some criteria for who is allowed to player-own shares and their conditions.  For instance, you'd be wise to specify that all those who own shares get to vote on company matters, and you'd also probably want to specify that those who don't vote for 3 consecutive quarters get fired and their shares refunded.

10) You'd need a vision for where this game is going.  And I'm going to be completely honest with you, where this game needs to go is SM3.  (SM1 being legacy and SM2 being current reloaded.)  And have fun trying to get everyone to agree about where this game is going.  It was difficult enough to get the balance team to agree on anything.

And no offense, but also given the SM universe "lore" (which there is hardly any), I don't think SM3 should incorporate ANY of the concepts in our current game.  I would say look outside the game for other concept games and use some of their general principles.  I could easily list like 20+ ideas on how to fix SM in terms of the overall gameplay but I don't want to "show my hand" because if I spill my ideas out here, someone could very well just steal them and create SM3 without me.

Instead, what I would want is this: if someone can give me $1B USD initial investment capital, I can buy out the name and then create a game that will be far more successful and lucrative.  But I would need this initial investment capital in order to get the ball rolling.  And I would also point out that the way I would fix SM would be to completely reinvent the game.

So my advice (sorry for necro-replying) is to just enjoy it until it folds.  I still recommend the game to parents with kids.  But no game lasts forever, and certainly not SM.  I am not saying SM is dying so much as I am saying SM is not eternal.

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4 hours ago, SawzAll said:

Existuje niekoľko potenciálnych problémov:

1) Stále by ste museli niekomu zaplatiť, aby sa stal generálnym riaditeľom / finančným riaditeľom, aj keď si hru kúpili všetci. Napríklad Fender Musical Instruments je tiež vo vlastníctve zamestnancov a má výkonný tím .

2) Potrebovali by ste hráčov s dostatočnou hotovosťou na odkúpenie akcií a toto. Myslím, že takýchto typov je málo.

3) Potrebovali by ste, aby hráči pochopili, že nákup akcií a účasť v programe zamestnaneckého vlastníctva NEZNAMENÁ, že dostanú žetóny alebo iné výhody v hre okrem kozmetiky. Pretože ak do toho každý príde s prístupom oprávnenia, každý sa bude len živiť spoločnosťou, kým nezomrie.

4) Potom by ste museli zorganizovať nejaké úsilie a najať programátorov, ktorí sú dôveryhodní. Bavte sa s tým. Akčný skript (Flash) v podstate vymrel.

5) Najprv by ste museli odkúpiť akcie spoločnosti a potom presunúť spoločnosť do zamestnaneckého vlastníctva. To sa nestane len tak zo dňa na deň.

6) Mali by ste to urobiť skôr, než sa o tom dozvie skutočný vlastník hry (nápoveda, nie Alex) a zloží spoločnosť. Nikdy sme sa nestretli s touto osobou: čo ak sa nechce vzdať SM ?

7) Musí to byť medzinárodná spoločnosť.

😎 Všetci by ste museli byť zamestnancami, aby to bolo vlastnené zamestnancami. Myslím, že to, čo myslíš, je vlastnenie hráča.

9) Potrebovali by ste nejaké kritériá na to, kto môže vlastniť akcie hráča a ich podmienky. Napríklad by bolo rozumné uviesť, že všetci tí, ktorí vlastnia akcie, môžu hlasovať o záležitostiach spoločnosti, a tiež by ste pravdepodobne chceli uviesť, že tí, ktorí nehlasujú 3 po sebe idúce štvrťroky, budú prepustení a ich akcie budú vrátené.

10) Potrebovali by ste víziu, kam táto hra smeruje. A budem k vám úplne úprimný, kde táto hra musí ísť, je SM3. (SM1 je starý a SM2 je aktuálne reloadovaný.) A bavte sa pri pokuse o to, aby sa všetci zhodli na tom, kam táto hra smeruje. Bolo dosť ťažké prinútiť bilančný tím, aby sa na čomkoľvek dohodol.

A bez urážky, ale aj vzhľadom na „tradíciu“ univerza SM (ktorá takmer neexistuje), si nemyslím, že by SM3 malo zahŕňať ŽIADNY z konceptov v našej súčasnej hre. Povedal by som, že hľadajte mimo hry iné koncepčné hry a použite niektoré z ich všeobecných princípov. Mohol by som ľahko vymenovať viac ako 20 nápadov, ako opraviť SM , pokiaľ ide o celkovú hrateľnosť, ale nechcem „ukázať ruku“, pretože ak tu svoje nápady vysypem, niekto by ich mohol jednoducho ukradnúť a vytvoriť SM3 bezo mňa.

Namiesto toho by som chcel toto: ak mi niekto môže dať počiatočný investičný kapitál vo výške 1 miliardy USD, môžem odkúpiť meno a potom vytvoriť hru, ktorá bude oveľa úspešnejšia a lukratívnejšia. Potreboval by som však tento počiatočný investičný kapitál, aby som sa dal do pohybu. A tiež by som poukázal na to, že spôsob, akým by som opravil SM , by bol úplne znovuobjaviť hru.

Takže moja rada (ospravedlňujem sa za nekro-odpovedanie) je len si to užiť, kým sa to nezloží. Hru stále odporúčam rodičom s deťmi. Ale žiadna hra netrvá večne a už vôbec nie SM . Nehovorím, že SM umiera natoľko, ako hovorím, že SM nie je večné.

A billion USD is a lot. A much smaller amount would get you moving. Well, at least my person for sure. I know quite a bit about the background of SM. As for buying the game, basically I wouldn't buy it as a gamer, but as a private person. Alexander would work for me as a programmer. He knows the game so he is an obvious choice. As for upgrading the game. No new SM would take place. But adjustments would be made regularly to weapons, torsos, etc. Not once in 2-5 years. Discord and forum would be taken as a suggestion, I give him an order and he does it. Subsequently, an additional buff or nerf will be made. But he will also work hard on what is visible and what the community demands. If not, someone else will... 🤷‍♂️

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